OT way OT but GOOD for Mom!

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Han wrote:

Heh! It's BECAUSE criminals can easily obtain guns that the rest of us should be able to obtain a gun just as easily.
Here's how a criminal gets his gun: * Criminal #1: "Here's the money." * Criminal #2: "Here's your gun."
Why should it be any different for me? (Fortunately, it's not much different, but you get the idea.)
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Well, all of you are right, except for 1 thing: Where did that illegal gun come from? Just like a car can be traced through all its owners by the VIN, a gun - IMO any gun - should be traceable through a similar registration process. It's not only the last perp who has an illegal gun and is guilty, it's all the former owners who "neglected" to legally transfer the weapon, back to the manufacturer.
Now, I agree that isn't likely to be instituted any time soon, but, using Heybub's story up there somewhere as an example: Did the guy whomhe surprised in a burglary take any of Heybub's weapons, and if so did Heybub notify the authorities of their "VIN"'s? Because it is generally stolen or purposely bought and sold guns that are now the "illegal" guns. Tracing them and legally punishing the sobs that brought them on the illegal market in the first place ought to help at least somewhat.
Which brings us to the intriguing question of why the US has the highest % of population in prison of all Western countries, but that should be another thread, perhaps not on the wreck.
--
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Han
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On 1/7/2012 8:43 AM, Han wrote:

Need to register kitchen knives also. Oh and your machete, your pitchfork, 2x4. All weapons of death in the wrong hands.
Take all guns off the streets and you have a new weapon of choice.
Have you ever seen a dog chasing his tail? Gun registration is not a fix for anything. It only gives the government one more power over you and I.

And how many of those in prison are there for a reasons because there was actually fowl play that involved a gun?? There are countless reasons for being in joail that does not involve a weapon.
Why a greater percentage? Because of way too many stupid laws. Seriously, someone kills your friend you are responsible for his death because you were with him. Make up your own reason to prosecute him. The only gun involved was the person doing the shooting with the registered gun.
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There *are* some advantages to registering guns. If some are stolen, they can be returned to the lawful owner assuming serials haven't been removed.
There's a definite advantage to law enforcement if they can track a gun from the original owner to where it's finally seized.
Another reason may be to cause gun owners to reasonably and safely store their firearms as they should be doing. Too many children are killed or injured every year because of improperly stored guns.
None of these reasons have anything to do with this Mom protecting her child as she was fully entitled to do. Just that there can be reasons why some gun control has good purpose.
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The guy who got angry at me for barely bumping the rear wheel of the bike he was pushing on the sidewalk threw his slize of pizza at me. I guess I was lucky he didn't have a gun or knife and that he was restrained by the streetvendors. I think there is a difference in the effects of a slice of pizza and a gun though.

I have no objection tosomeone having a gun, IF they know how to handle it responsibly. The fact that now anyone who really wants it can get a gun without anyone checking on him is what makes it scary for me. I really think that should be made more difficult, and that both the buyer and seller should face the consequences of an illegal act.

As I said, a different subject, but one of the facets of a less lawful society.

We have gone over the aspects that the law of felony murder is likely because of deterrence, and to get the guy who had been stirring up the trouble and was "smart" enough to let someone else do the deed.

??
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[...]

Largely because of our absurd policy of jailing people for using drugs, or for possessing small amounts for personal use.
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I was born in Holland, so follow with some interest the Amsterdam experiences. It does turn out only semi-beneficial to allow low-level drugs. One bad aspect is the riffraff drugtourists coming in. That causes troubles in tourist areas (not only Amsterdam). Another is the "gateway" to small-time and not so smalltime transgressions of the law in other areas, hard(er) drugs, prostitution and human trafficking. So I haven't reall formed a hard opinion, but I think that somewhere there should be a definite and definitive border beyond which it is a real bad crime. But, yes, it would likely be beneficial to drug users and society as a whole if personal drug use would be allowed, and somehow regulated and taxed.
YMMV!
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Han
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On 1/7/2012 2:33 PM, Han wrote:

But, yes, it would likely be beneficial to drug users and society

Do to Denver, you may buy your drugs there with the good graces of law enforcement.
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Oops. For the record, I use medications, not what generally is thought of as drugs. The silly giggling of a friend smoking something made the decision for me. The smell of marihuana smoke in the rest room closest to my lab in the VA clinched it.
To each his own. I have no objection to you smoking or whatever the lesser stuff, as long as you don't commit crimes getting it, or drive while under the influence.
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On Sat, 07 Jan 2012 21:56:55 +0000, Han wrote:

That's probably the way it should be handled - DUI. Or as an aggravating factor of any crime committed while UI.
That way we could avoid making criminals rich.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 00:55:15 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

Which, the perps on the street or those in suits and ties with law degrees?
-- Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult, whereas I am merely in disguise. -- Margaret Atwood
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I understand that those "drug legal areas" have been rescinded and no longer exist in the last few years.
--------------
"Han" wrote in message I was born in Holland, so follow with some interest the Amsterdam experiences. It does turn out only semi-beneficial to allow low-level drugs. One bad aspect is the riffraff drugtourists coming in. That causes troubles in tourist areas (not only Amsterdam). Another is the "gateway" to small-time and not so smalltime transgressions of the law in other areas, hard(er) drugs, prostitution and human trafficking. So I haven't reall formed a hard opinion, but I think that somewhere there should be a definite and definitive border beyond which it is a real bad crime. But, yes, it would likely be beneficial to drug users and society as a whole if personal drug use would be allowed, and somehow regulated and taxed.
YMMV!
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As I understood it, the law still says it's illegal, but there is a gentleman's agreement (change wording as appropriate) that personal enjoyment is allowed, and serving that personal enjoyment in what in Amsterdam is called "coffeeshops" is fine too. Because of (mostly German) drug tourism and vandalism, such is not the case for non-citizens in communities very close to the German border. But, hey, I'm not really interested in it, so take it for what it is, usenet noise ...
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Han wrote:

What difference does it make to me where the criminal got the gun if I have to protect myself from him? Traceable? Why? Any time the cops have a gun that COULD be traceable, the crime has already occurred. What difference does it make to me, when accosted by a mope, whether the gun he uses can be traced?

No, the goblin didn't get any guns from me. He was apparently just beginning his squit-eyed actions.
You had better check your facts: Most guns used in crime, so far as authorities know, are NOT committed with stolen guns.
Believe me, every time authorities find a gun that has moved illegally in commerce, those responsible are punished. Except for those thousands of guns whose dodgy sales were sanctioned by the BATF. Most went to drug cartels in Mexico (a good thing) but some ended up on this side of the border where they contributed to the mayhem.

We have the highest percentage of incarceration because we want to keep the crime rate as low as possible. There is an obvious and dramatic inverse relationship between crime and incarceration. This doesn't prove causality, of course, but it's a good indicator to most folks.
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Seems to me it would make a definite difference to the prosecution of the ccriminal(s).

Good for you. I hope things are well locked up in your house now.

Illegal guns then.

It amazes me that now you seem to imply that BATF should be more empowered, but that would be GOOD in my opinion, at least if they get the deadbrains out of the line of command.

My train of thought is - more poor and desperate people - easy drug use - more criminality - more incarceration. But then, that's another train of thought.
For the record, there are areas in Amsterdam (or other cities) where walking around at night may not be advisable. But I have walked round many areas of New York City without incidents of any consequence too, but mostly during daytime or early evening.
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Han wrote:

Absolutely no difference at all. The perp is a criminal because he used a gun. The provenance of the gun is completely irrelevant to his crime.

Uh, no. They are concealed. The squint would have to tear up the house to find them while I can put my hands on one in mere seconds.

Huh? I hold the BATF should be ABOLISHED. Root & branch. Cremated and the ashes scattered. Take no chances is my motto.

So we lock up those tempted, or driven, to illegality. Same result: less crime.
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On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 21:24:41 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

There is often a definite advantage to law enforcement if some sort of trail can be established from where, when and who the gun was stolen from.
Consider this. A bunch of guns are stolen in the US and find their way into a smuggling ring that brings them up to Canada. (As has happened many times). Knowing where these guns came from in the US lets law enforcement focus on certain areas and travel routes more than others. Every little bit of knowledge helps in trying to prevent such occurrences.
How about a closely comparable example? Knowing where many/most of the illegal immigrants cross the Mexican border into the US, lets immigration concentrate more on a particular area.
Same situation, different subjects, both true. Tell me you dispute this?
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On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 13:02:59 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

You can't argue your way out of an immutable fact Mike. Criminal elements and organizations have been exporting guns to Canada for a long time. That's fact. Tracking information (where it exists) goes a long way in the fight to prevent this trafficing.
As I said before, every little bit of information in this fight, helps. Registration is just a part of that fight. You want to call it a small part? Fine, I'll give you that, but the basic premise still stands.
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On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 13:56:22 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Registration promotes responsibility. Before I bought my first hand gun, I had to go through some form of training, belong to a gun club and wait a specific period before getting my first gun. I didn't want to jeopardize my gun ownership, so I was careful to adhere to my responsibilities. That's just the start. There are other advantages.
If you want to label registration as a feel good endeavor, that's entirely your prerogative. I see it as more than that. My prerogative.
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Are you saying that trafficking in stolen guns is so well established that we really shouldn't consider it illegal anymore? Your trains of thought are insane, IMNSHO. Of course, I admit that you think otherwise.
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