OT Porter Cable Router $99.00 Amazon.com

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wrote:

The profit margins C-less thinks are so high are in reality nowhere near that range. Festool annual sales currently run about 200 million. They have to compete with the big dogs and insane margins simply won't let them compete. I would be surprised if they made 10% on their gross turnover. I am also willing to bet that the margins are way higher for HF shit. Their router, for instance, maybe costs them 15 bucks to make because they spend bugger-all on R&D (They steal all ideas), use inferior materials and pay their workers dick-all in wages. Those commie bastards are ripping you off, C-less! $ 59.00 for that router? Guess who's screwing who here?
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I only paid $29 or so. So complete a rip-off of a Makita, it had to be made in the same factory. Yes, it has an inferior motor and a fair amount of fettling was needed but my time fettling wasn't worth the difference in price with the real thing. Plus it works better than my off the shelf DeWalt and I can buy Makita parts, if needed.
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wrote:

How many people are pushing (or even mentioning) Bentleys around here on almost a daily basis, hmmm? If they were, some gripes might come out in the wash. <shrug>
Do I complain when people diss my HF line? <titter>
-- "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." --Edward Abbey
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How many here are actually pushing Festool other than reporting first hand knowledge about the product and the value of the product. I seriousely doubt any one here that uses Festool benefits a whole lot from a Festool sale.

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that just because you don't see the value, it does not mean that value does not exist. No need to cannibalize the name or criticize the brand unless you have first hand experience with the product and have a legitimate complaint.
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Unfortunately, one doesn't need that first hand experience to complain about Festool prices. I admit to not liking them at all, but I don't complain about them because I do have first hand experience with several Festool products. And since my initial foray into Festool territory gave me what I wanted most which was dust collection, I've reconciled myself to those prices. Coupled with Festool's 30 day, no hassle, full refund if you're not completely satisifed with their products, there was really no risk for me to take that first step into Festool territory to see if the tool met my needs.
There's a special type of satisfaction in buying and owning a tool that in most cases, you know it will do what it's supposed to do first time and everytime. Yeah, that satisfaction usually costs extra money. But for me anyway, I'd much prefer that to buying some tool really cheaply that I'm less confident about and always have the thought in the back of my minding wondering if or when it was going to fail.
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I've lived with crappy tools for many years but didn't want to replace them because they still "worked". When I finally did replace the original Sears crap the difference was amazing and I promised myself that I'd never buy a cheap tool again (unless it was a one-job throw-away). If I couldn't afford the "best", I didn't buy anything. Now that I'm in a position where I can buy pretty much anything I want, I do. The Kapex (or a Laguna BS, for that matter) is still beyond what I'm willing to pay.
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I would love to own a Kapex but I probably would not use it. I have a Delta CMS and absolutely quit using it, in the shop, when I bought a cabinet saw and found it to be superior,coupled with the Dubby jigs, compared to the miter saw. I do have the LT16 HD Laguna however.... You just walk up to it, tension the blade, turn it on, and start cutting. It has been months since I switched blades so there has been no guide adjustments and it has probably been a couple of years since I have adjusted the top wheel tilt angle regardless of which blade is mounted. When you are ready to simply cut with the saw and quit tweeking the guides or top wheel the Laguna and or the MiniMax saws fill the bill. I avoided my old BS in the past simply because of the adjustements that were constantly needed, no longer. Oh and the 4.5 hp monster hanging off the back side of the saw never strains. ;~) AND oddly the longer 150" blades are easier to deal with then folding up or opening than the short ones.
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I looked at the Kapex, for about a microsecond, before I bought a Bosch to replace my HF. I'll likely still use the HF rebuilding a fence this spring. I won't fear leaving it outside. ;-)

Would you STOP! <sheesh> ;-) I got into the Festool swamp listening to you guys. I don't want to spend as much on a bandsaw as I did on the Unisaw. ;-)
I wouldn't go for a motor that big. I'd rather not wire that much juice into the "shop". Not that it would be impossible (the "shop has no walls yet), but 20A, 240V is enough.
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Is it the new style Bosch with the articulating arm?

LOL, well when you want to work "with" the saw instead of "on" the saw..... ;~)

Actually it will run on 20 amp 240 and that is the smallest IIRC motor available on the HD series saws. The Baldor motor requires 19 amp in 240 volt mode and 38 amp in 120 volt mode. My garage has a single 30 amp 240 volt receptacle.
Keep in mind also that, according to the electrician that replaced a breaker in my new house, modern breakers tend to be overrated and it is not unusual to see one trip at 80% capacity. The typical 240 volt tool, my cabinet saw and stationary planer require 16 amps. With a 20 amp service you might be borderline. Cheaper to go a little extra now than later.
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On 3/20/11 2:19 PM, Leon wrote:

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
  Click to see the full signature.
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No, the old style.

<mutter>
I might do that, but I really don't want to. I guess it's that I really don't see the need.

They often won't trip until they're loaded way over capacity, but I've not heard of them tripping under their rated current. If a 20A breaker trips with less than 20A, it's defective.
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From what I understand it is pretty common with todays modern breakers. Too much safety built in with GFI and Ark Fault interrupters built in to the breakers.
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wrote:

These things were never designed to go aboard the Ark, guys.
Yeah, what amperage are common GFIs set to kick off, 5A or sumpin? Picky li'l bastids, ain't they?
-- "I probably became a libertarian through exposure to tough-minded professors" James Buchanan, Armen Alchian, Milton Friedman "who encouraged me to think with my brain instead of my heart. I learned that you have to evaluate the effects of public policy as opposed to intentions." -- Walter E. Williams
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Somebody wrote:

Spoken like a true dumb fuck.
It all depends on the thermal environment.
Lew
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Totally agree with that. I had a breaker triping problem in the hot summer, using the same power tools, that went away when the temperature cooled off. Winter, Spring, and Fa, there was never a problem.
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I think they will trip at any amperage, GFI. They are suppose to trip if the ground carries the current, indicating a short, instead of only the black and white leads. ARC fault is a different matter altoghther and is problematic from what I understand.
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Not if "the ground carries current", rather, if *not* only the hot and neutral (black and white). If there is a leakage path somewhere else they will trip also. IOW, the ground wire has nothing to do with it.

Wouldn't surprise me, though GFCI had a lot of teething problems, too. Those are pretty much gone now, so you can assume that you have a problem if there's a trip.
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I've never heard that problem before (rather the opposite). I'll keep a lookout for it in the future, though.
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Unfortunately I have experienced it with my new house and the replacement breaker. On a 20 amp dedicated circuit with a small freezer, and a compressor. One a week when both would come on at the same time the breaker would trip. Continued with the replacement. The solution was to put one on another circuit. Connections at breaker box and recepticle are tight. The electrician hinted at the solution and the problem... ;~(
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Why do you say that that was a problem with the breaker? Sounds normal to me.
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Compressor max load, 15 amp, Freezer max load according to repair technition 2 amp. Well under the 20 amp rating.
Compressor does fine on a 15 amp circuit. I suspect that the freezer pulls much more than 2 amps and according to the electrician I really don't have a breaker problem according to industry standards. He listed a host of brands of breakers and their designed trip points. Most all according to him trip at 80% load. He indicated that they ain't like they ust'a be. A couple on his list would trip at the designated amp rating however they are terribly expensive and or no longer in business.
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