OT: Misc. Ramblings.

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Show me your tax bill and then tell me again that the cost was zero.
todd
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My tax bill is the same as anybody else in my income bracket.
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My tax bill is the same as anybody else in my income bracket.
Well actually, your tax bill is finally paying off, for you. Had you not had the procedure done, your tax bill would have been the same as anybody else in your income tax bracket where you live. If you have no choice in participation it is good that your body eventually craps out so that you can receive some of the benefits that you have been paying for all these years. ;~)
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Yup, just like any insurance. Those benefit from it, are the winners. The BIG difference is that here, we all have the same coverage... ALL of us. And that the bigger earners pay proportionally more than the lower income families... still the same coverage.
There might be ideological issues with socialized medicine, but I think it is wrong to live in a system where, through no fault of your own, a small tumor can take away the house you've worked for all your life. Communities used to band together to help out a sick person, usually through churches and their connections. There used to be a thing like a barn-raising too. God-fearing conservatives even admit that that isn't as common anymore.
All of those nay sayers about socialized medicine have no problem driving on socialized roads and bridges, or depending on socialized armies for protection. Double standard, I say.
You don't get to pick and chose what you want handled by central government and what not. The central government is here to rape your earnings for the ones who live in the castles. To be a conservo-fundy makes it so much easier to tolerate. When you do well, it is because you work hard or you screw your neighbour out of what should be his. When things don't go well, God has it in for you.... so you lose your house. When you speak out against the injustices of the world, you're a lefty.
What really irks the shit out of me, is that when people sit down, have a beer, and honestly talk about what it is they want, they would find very little difference between them. We all want the best for our families and our countries. The two-party rhetoric is nothing but a firewall designed to keep us apart and under control.
Having said that, you wear it like a yoke.
r
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..
You commie ;-)
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m...
Now, was that nice? Huh?
A lot of those 'collective' ideas look good in fables and fairy tales. But I want to keep for what I have fought. I'm in no way willing to share with lazy bastards who suck on the teat of other peoples' incomes. To hell with that noise. But to give doctors free reign, so they can screw the people who have worked hard, ends up being nothing short of extortion. $ 5000.00 per day for a concrete-block box with a bed in it is just plain bullshit. The bulk of the 'surgeons' are just butchers with a permit to hack away at humans. $ 3000.00 for a VERY basic wheelchair is just plain bullshit too. WTF?? Titanium/composite prices for powder-coated thin-wall metal with plastic wheels? I think Harbor Freight ought to look into some of those. $ 80.00 for a box of Kleenex? Piss off already.
Just because I believe in free enterprise and trickle-down economics doesn't make me blind to the rip-off that we call health-care. You make the money you can from the people who want your services, but I don't think that sick people fit that category. They're patients, for chrissakes, not farking customers.
Don't get me started.
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com...
Hey, I winked at you....
And, yes, trickle-down economics *does* work. The boss makes *millions* of dollars more than me. (No exaggeration, I think he makes 8 million annually while I make almost 8 million less than that.) But every day he has to walk to his car. When he does, there's a chance he'll drop a dollar as he pulls his keys from his pockets. My co- workers and I fight for those. Last week I would have gotten a dollar if that dork in accounting didn't hit me from behind...
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s.com...
LOL.. I saw that.. but I'm always a little awkward around guys that wink at me :)

Hey, you should be proud that he's doing well. If he didn't, you'd be out of a job.
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ups.com...
Yeah, well, the company went into chapter 11 on his watch...
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AHA! You kept that wee bit of info from me. Could it be he dropped too many dollars in the parking lot?
:)
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:46:25 -0800 (PST), Robatoy

>
What's the diff? Working for nothing, or not working? He did say the boss made 8 million a year, and he made 8 million less, didn't he????
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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Harbor Freight does sell wheelchairs.
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Hank wrote:

...as well as the local medical supply house where I picked up a shiny new one for the MIL for $225.
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Yeah, so does my local hospital, which is the same place that attempted to charge my mother 10 bucks for two generic aspirin some years ago. Oops. She had recently retired as acting adminstrator of a small Westchester County (NY) hospital; the admins locally were not pleased to have an elderly woman tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. Or maybe I can get it from the local hotshot ortho surgeon who some nine years ago screwed up my right knee, when I had no insurance and ended up paying $9,000+ for surgery I've since discovered costs about $2,300 for the insured. Little things: $38 for an Ace bandage that sells at full retail at the local drugstore for $6.95 or some such. If I remember correctly, the VA charged me something under $800 to correct the mess a few years later.
Oh, yeah. The U.S. medical system is wonderful. Bullshit. 'Splain to me why the hotshot surgeons of one type or another are worth five million bucks a year, and the adminstrators in large hospitals get nearly as much.
The system is broken.
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Yo Charles, Good thing you is a vet.
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My problem with social health care and insurance is that both are literally the same. They both cost you a fortune. The middle man, insurance company makes the money or the middle man, the government wastes a majority of the money that they collect. Doctors have indicated that if there was no insurance involved in the health care that they could substantially lower your health care costs. I have heard examples of 80% savings. Once a patient figures that he has paid his required fee he goes crazy and abuses the system. In Houston there are several doctor owned health care groups that typically cost a family less than $100 per month for coverage. The patient pays for each and every service, however the services are in line with what the charges should be by cutting out the middle man. On one of the local health talk radio shows a doctor was giving examples of what uninsured, insured and members of his group pay for various treatments. One that stood out was the cost of orthopedic micro knee surgery. The regular uninsured patient pays about $25,000 for the hospital and the procedure. The patient that was a member of that group paid out of pocket $2700. I totally believe that if insurance was eliminated from the medical field that medical costs would go down drastically and would even be much lower than your social health care cost built into your taxes. If it is going to be strictly a patient and doctor relationship the costs by the health care giver would go down. Blame insurance and health care programs for driving up costs along with stupid awarded judgments against doctors.

Yup, just like any insurance. Those benefit from it, are the winners. The BIG difference is that here, we all have the same coverage... ALL of us. And that the bigger earners pay proportionally more than the lower income families... still the same coverage.
There might be ideological issues with socialized medicine, but I think it is wrong to live in a system where, through no fault of your own, a small tumor can take away the house you've worked for all your life. Communities used to band together to help out a sick person, usually through churches and their connections. There used to be a thing like a barn-raising too. God-fearing conservatives even admit that that isn't as common anymore.
All of those nay sayers about socialized medicine have no problem driving on socialized roads and bridges, or depending on socialized armies for protection. Double standard, I say.
You don't get to pick and chose what you want handled by central government and what not. The central government is here to rape your earnings for the ones who live in the castles. To be a conservo-fundy makes it so much easier to tolerate. When you do well, it is because you work hard or you screw your neighbour out of what should be his. When things don't go well, God has it in for you.... so you lose your house. When you speak out against the injustices of the world, you're a lefty.
What really irks the shit out of me, is that when people sit down, have a beer, and honestly talk about what it is they want, they would find very little difference between them. We all want the best for our families and our countries. The two-party rhetoric is nothing but a firewall designed to keep us apart and under control.
Having said that, you wear it like a yoke.
r
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My brother-in-law is constantly in discussions with the insurance company. THEY want to dictate what's best for my sister (she had a fall broke her neck and is a quadriplegic now).... and here's something strange.. the bill to my BIL ,on one occasion, was $ 160,000.00 The insurance company took it to the administration of the hospital and negotiated it down to $ 70,000.00. According my BIL, this happens all the time. How much luck would my BIL have had trying to do the same thing?
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wrote:

My brother-in-law is constantly in discussions with the insurance company. THEY want to dictate what's best for my sister (she had a fall broke her neck and is a quadriplegic now).... and here's something strange.. the bill to my BIL ,on one occasion, was $ 160,000.00 The insurance company took it to the administration of the hospital and negotiated it down to $ 70,000.00. According my BIL, this happens all the time. How much luck would my BIL have had trying to do the same thing?
I think you see where I am coming from now. The hospital probably could have come down much farther had they not had to haggle with the insurance company. Take the middle man out of the equation and the medical field does not have to mark every thing up 5 times more than necessary. But, with insurance companies and government programs the medical industry has to give discounts, do massive write offs because the "I" did not get dotted in the allocated time, they have to employ expensive staff that is smart enough to get the bills paid, add mal practice insurance and so on. Those with no insurance get caught with holding the tab "IF" they can afford the procedures because of the deep discounts that the government and insurance dictate and because of the cost of dealing with both of those agencies. In your BIL case, if the actual cost of only the medical care is considered you get the big discount or more than what was negotiated. Your BIL would have no luck in negotiating it down but the massive insurance company has plenty of pull. Think of the insurance company and government health care system as a form of Labor Union, not nearly as cost effective as not having either at all. If medical care was negotiated between the health care provider and each and every patient the cost would come down or they would be out of business. No one could afford health care that is 5 to 10 times more expensive than it needs to be. Cut out government regulated waste and insurance companies and the health care system would lower its prices and actually become competitive.
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Leon wrote:

What about areas that are too small for real competition--what's to stop them from fixing prices like gas stations, ISPs, phone service providers, car companies, etc. do today?
I live in Saskatchewan. Our car insurance is run by the province, and we have some of the lowest rates in the country. The market doesn't always result in the best price to the customer....sometimes it just results in shareholder profits.
Chris
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Chris Friesen wrote:

Those profits attract competition.
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