OT - locksets.

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snipped-for-privacy@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote: [...]

I respectfully disagree. IMHO, the single biggest thing you can do for home security is to own a dog.
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"Doug Miller" wrote:

Try a gander.
Lew
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On 5/2/2010 10:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:

Guinea hens ...
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www.e-woodshop.net
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"Swingman" wrote:

Guinea hens make a racket but a gander will also take of bite out of you.
Even worse, mama goose with a hatch of goslings.
I watched one rework a barn cat.
Lew
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On Mon, 3 May 2010 06:45:28 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"

I have seen a goose attacked and knocked down a woman. Found out later the goose had a nearby nest of eggs she was protecting.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

A co-worker tried six geese as "watch dogs" at his summer home in the country. The neighboring farmer, who was somewhat of a redneck, ate them all for dinner.
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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"Nova" wrote:

That was a real neighborly fellow.
When I first came to SoCal, there was a yard near the office for parking trucks overnight that used guard geese.
As far as I know, they had no problems.
Lew
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On 5/3/2010 6:56 AM, Nova wrote:

He could have never done that with guineas ... unless he caught them roosting at night.
However, they do make a helluva gumbo!
:)
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Them's rednecks for ya.. always mooching and stealing.
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A large pecan grower along the Rio Grande near El Paso had unwanted visitors coming through and foraging as well as helping themselves to equipment and tools. The dogs within were often bought off with slabs of meat. They switched to Geese and that kept out the unwanted.
It later turned out that the large population of geese brought more cash in each year than the pecans!
He kept both running. Naturally, if the unwanted had shotguns the geese might not have faired just so. Martin
Nova wrote:

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(Robert Bonomi) wrote:

I have a dog. She's a watch dog. She would only "watch" if someone broke in. If I'm at home, the single biggest thing to deter a burglar is me and my Smith & Wesson .40 And just to discourage someone from asking, "But would you use it if the time came?" let me point out that I spent a year with the 1st. Cavalry Division, 1950-'51. "From the Naktong to the Yalu".
Max (I need an "aggressive" dog)
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wrote:

Where we live, most home burglaries are done as targets of opportunity. In even a residential neighborhood, a home gets rented out and soon fills with "economically deprived" souls. Soon, it's time to make a rent payment, buy some drugs, pay the dealer or get gasoline for the pickup, and a couple of them will locate an apparently empty house, toss a rock through the patio door and grab what they can easily carry away and readily sell. The sales take place at flea markets, pawn shops and the improvised stores found in the more traditional neighborhoods for these poor, suffering souls.
Most of the burglaries take place in homes where the home is viewable from a public area- which is how it's selected. One exception is the day laborers used by landscape maintenance crews, painters and other contractors visiting a neighborhood. Gated communities have a slight advantage, since even if a car follows you in thorough the gate, it's something a neighbor might see. Guard gated communities have a real advantage there, along with registration of all visitors and videotapes of the people inside the autos. Nothing is perfect. For instance, we have friends in a very nice home. To get there, we have to be admitted by a guard via the guard gate and the site is videotaped from different angles. We then drive through the subdivision and are faced with an electronic second gate. There, we either have to enter the code or call the guard house to have the gate opened. Once inside that subcompound, we reach our friend's home.
Did I mention that the home backs up to a public, yes PUBLIC golf courses? Yup, we sit in our friend's back yard, by their pool, and look over the 3' wrought iron fence and speak to the golfers waiting to tee off on the 8th hole. How's that for security? <grin>
Homes in the interior of a subdivision are far less likely to be hit than a home adjoining a fence between it and a street, sidewalk, park or other accessible area. For a house to have a lock picked or even the door forced would be exceptional. Here, it's almost always a smash, grab and run situation. Usually, the burglars are too high on drugs or just too plain stupid to realize that many homeowners now have cameras. However, the physical presence of a camera or "Monitored Alarm" stickers on windows and doors probably help them decide to go see your neighbor instead of you.
We have also had a rash of home invasions in town. There, the intruders have almost universally picked homes with opened doors that were visible from driving down a street.
Personally, I follow the rule of keeping exterior doors locked and window locked, except for ventilation. We have sun screens, so opened windows are not visible. . . particularly at night. However, I don't go nuts and put on $400 locksets to the front door, since I know that any patio door or window would be the entryway of choice for a thief of opportunity. One possibility that some might consider is the heavy (tint/reflectivity optional) window films that can be applied to glass. They're just a heavier duty version of the normal window films, but WILL stop a guy using a rock or hammer to open the glass door. Nothing's perfect, but the guy's not going to want to stand there pounding on the door.
In our case, we have the typical alarm system, including IR detectors, door and window switches and fire. I personally installed several 140dBa sirens INSIDE the house. One is near electronic equipment, another in the garage where I have my tools and the third by our master BR and my office. Trust me, when those suckers sound off, nobody hangs around. They won't stop an entry, but will sure make it miserable for the burglar to go rummaging around.
--
Nonny
On most days,
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<snip>

Are you insinuating that golfers are dishonest?
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<snip>

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On 4/30/2010 5:51 PM, Max wrote:

Have you rendered your doors and windows resistant to likely levels of force? If not then you need to do that before you have to worry about whether your locks can be picked--most intruders don't pick locks, they break something.
If you're really concerned about bumping then call a locksmith and have him rekey your existing locks with bumproof cylinders. It will likely be cheaper than replacing them all with bumproof locks.
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To the extent that I could without going to metal doors. They're all solid core doors and fairly "hefty".

I really need to replace the locksets anyway; they're 24 years old, much used and "builder quality". The deadbolts are still in good shape and I thought I would have them re-keyed to accept the same key as the new entry locksets. That would entail getting the same brand as the original so I might go the expense of replacing both.
Max (still pondering)
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Just a couple of thoughts here. If you look at the Medeco or Best brands, you will find that a lockset or deadbolt will run about $200 for each unit. i have installed hundreds of the Medeco, but no Best branded locks. The Medecos are top flight, but they retain a definite commercial appearance as that is their market.
If you go the commercial route, make sure you check out the installation instructions. Most of them are box style locks, and you will either need some real time and patience to install them, or rent/ buy a deep mortise machine. For the most part these are not locks that you remove the old lock and simply screw a new one of them in the old holes.
Through all the years of installing Schlage, Kwickset, Baldwins, Ball, Yale and a slew of Chinese stuff, I like the Schlage for their price point. As I have said before, I used to have a contract with a local company to install their doors, and I have put a lot of Schlage product on. Never had a service or warranty call. Their newer finishes on their polished brass (starting about 5 years ago) hold up great.
The upper line has a good finish on it in polished nickel, oiled bronze, etc., that lasts well. The mechanicals are solid on their hardware. Make sure you get a deadbolt that has a 1" throw.
I put Schlage on my house about 27 years ago, and the front door lock still works smooth as silk. The only maintenance I have ever done on the lock was to take it out and clean it and re-oil it after every ten year mark.
The most important thing with any lock is the installation. I get good service out of the stainless steel generic brands ("Defender", "Titan" and such) for sheds, landlord repairs, etc., because I take the time to adjust the lock to work properly.
A lock is working properly when you can close the door easily with one finger and all you get is a "click". The deadbolt works correctly if you turn the key and can barely feel the plunger assembly move.
The best additional security I do for my clients is to change out the screws in the jamb side of the mortise. Instead of using the 5/8" supplied screws, I get 2 1/2" screws in cadmium to install the strike plates for both locksets and deadbolts. It takes an incredible amount of energy to get those out of the jamb with brute force.
Good luck!
Robert
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Bingo!! Just the sort of info I was seeking. Robert, you are a treasure.
Sometimes a guy comes here looking for advice when he has already made up...well somewhere between 50 and 90 percent...of his mind but would really like some confirmation. My many thanks,
Max
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That was a particularly useful response, wasn't it?
I saw a video years ago called B and E A to Z, all about how to get into places you don't have a key for. What an eye-opener, it showed most residential locks to be a complete joke so far as even a slightly experienced burglar is concerned. In addition a series of businesses I worked for were burglarized and that was highly educational as well--a steel-clad door barred from the inside doesn't matter much when they pry off a vent cover into the phone/electrical room and then cut through the wall with a battery-powered saw.
The thing about burglars is they look at a locked door in a totally different way than a law-abiding citizen. If you don't have a key you think you can't open that door, but a burglar thinks of the five ways he knows to open that door without a key. One of the simplest is to cut a chunk out of the door frame around the bolt so the door can be opened still locked with the bolt uselessly still in place--a hammer and chisel or a reciprocating saw renders even the best deadbolt pointless in moments if the door frame is that easy to get through.
As others have suggested whether or not the lock is pick-resistant is of less importance than how well the door and windows resist simple brute-force methods since you're far more likely to encounter a meth-head with a pry-bar than a cat-burglar with safe-cracking experience. In that regard your alarm is already your best defense, as even a meth-head will see the alarm sign and keep on going.
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All too true. I am a retired Fire Chief. I spent 33 years on the job and as a rookie I rode a ladder truck. We were the guys with the axes. But in order to keep damage to a minimum, believe it or not, <G> we tried a variety of different ways to gain entry other than extreme measures. There are ways the average homeowner would never imagine.
Max
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