OT: Linux Troll

Page 1 of 3  
OBWW - I use my computer to draw, cutlist, research, price, photoshop, etc. stuff for wooddorking and even use it to read the Wreck from time to time.
I ask this here because I know there are a bunch of guru types on the Wreck, and they, being fellow wooddorkers, will not steer me wrong.
I am in the midst of getting a new laptop and that is going remarkably unwell ( see supra ).
I was wondering, having seen the fat content of Win XP Pro, as delivered with a 2.4 ghz desktop box that I put in place a few months ago - and having wiped the drive and put on Win 98 SE in its place - might I be able to relieve myself of the MShackles entirely and put on this Linux that I have heard so much about?
I am particularly enamoured of the concept of small footprint and small overhead. Win XP, in both its Pro and Home variations, is quite the hog.
I currently run MS Office 2000, PhotoShop v. 4.0, TurboCad v.5.1, AutoCad v. 2000, Eudora Pro v. 5.1, Forte Agent v. 1.7, Norton Utilities v. ?, Norton AntiVirus v. ?.
I must be able to hook into my office network and get on Axapta.
Will I be able to communicate to my MS based brethren, particularly in regards to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, and Access?
I await the common wisdom.
And thank you in advance for its lack of commonness.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Linux systems are hard to set up for newbies. When I started, it took me while to learn how to use it because it is so different from Windows. You can get distributions (redhat, mandrake) that make this easier, but it is never quite as easy to begin on as windows. You can learn in a day, however, and once you do, you will love it. As far as all the programs you use, you don't need antivirus tools because Unix systems (Linux is a version of Unix) are basically immune to them.
Linux has a very good photoshop replacement called Gimp that I actually prefer to photoshop. As far as Autocad programs, I am not too sure about them. Maybe someone else here knows if they exist. By the way, Linux has a lot of programs that read and write microsoft formats. OpenOffice, for example, is a good Word substitute.
-Jonathan Ward
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
SNIP <As far as all the programs you use, you don't need antivirus tools because Unix systems (Linux is a version of Unix) are basically immune to them.>
Sorry - this is simply NOT true and is DANGEROUS and STUPID to espouse. While it's true that fewer viruses, trojans, worms, etc. are written to attack Linux systems than are written against Windows, they do exist in significant numbers. So do security holes, buffer overflow exploits, spyware and all the other security issues that exist within Windows. And they DO attack UNIX systems in all their flavors. Just read the security e-zines, go to a few security sites, do a Google. To encourage people to do without security software on any OS is supremely irresponsible. I have been doing system design & software engineering for about 30 years, I keep state of the art, I receive & read numerous security e-zines each week. It infuriates me to have people with hearsay "knowledge" offer simply dangerous advice that will affect not only the people that follow the advice but also the entire net. Unsecured, unpatched machines are what is responsible for the widspread occurance of viruses, worms, etc. Every user has a responsibility to the net community to keep their machine as secure as possible. If you don't, you are as bad as the people writing the malicious code. Anyone advocating not securing machines is, well, I best leave that unsaid.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Indeed, while I'm a Mac guy I agree wholeheartly. There are substantially less virus's out there that can effect Mac and Unix (and linux) but they are there. That being said, generally the virus's that can effect you on these systems have substantially less dire consequences to your system and less chance to rapidly spread since they are essentially layered defenses without the MS operating system and it's accompying applications. Being a belt and suspenders guy though I certainly run firewalls and virus protection as a matter of course.
Allen
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
<snippage>

I'm sure you'll get better answers, but I'll toss in what I know...
There is an Office equivalent...Open Office will run on Linux or Windows and with a few small quirks open almost any Word, Excel or PowerPoint document. Its a little different then what you're used to in Office, in some good and bad ways. You have to be willing to let someone move your cheese :) I don't think there is an Access equivalent in the Open Source world, but I'm sure Silvan or someone with more knowledge than I can fill you in there.
As for mail clients, I'm sure some of the more hardcore *nix guys will laugh, but I really like Ximian Evolution. It has a lot of neat features and will do most everything that Lookout Exploit or Eudora will do with some more advanced features thrown in too. I know it comes with most of the newer distributions, but I'm running SUSE here at the house (sorry, I'm a Novell fan).
Can't speak for the CAD programs as I'm not quite up to that point in my wooddorking endeavours. But I can say that, for the most part, you needn't worry too much about anti-virus as most of the script-kiddies out there know that most of the world runs on Windows. I believe AVG has a freeware version of their AV software for Linux, but don't quote me on that.
There are also several different Photoshop equivalents out there...I've used gimp for editing pics, but I'm nowhere as advanced as SWMBO...you'd have to pry Photoshop out of her cold dead hands.
My suggestion...install it on a spare/older PC and see if you like it. I have my personal PC at home set up with both Linux and WinXP. Games run much better on XP (ATI does a crappy job of supporting Linux) but everything else I prefer to do in Linux.
And yes, I know I'm posting this from Lookout Exploit, but I gotta use what "the man" gives me at work.
Rob
Its free! http://forums.amateurtermite.com
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Tom, Given what you do with the confuser I would seriously look at a Mac. Office for the Mac is fully compatible, there's plenty of non-outlook mail programs and newsreaders, versions of Norton etc Lots of graphic and design programs including Photoshop. I'll stand by for the flames but It's damn pleasant to look at the virus and system compromise issues the Windows world is facing form where I sit. The iMac I'm working on now is five years old and I basically do exactly what you do with a computer. Other than adding some RAM it works fine. Allen Catonsville, MD
Asbestos underwear on!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Since nobody is addressing this paticular issue, I will throw in that you can just resign yourself to either switching cad programs, get a Windows emulator or give it up.
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yeah, but it's still a Mac. Tonka toy interface, one button mouse, hardly any software, and slow. And expensive.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
mp wrote:

Since the Mac is a BSD box you've just said that *nix has a Tonka toy interface, hardly any software, and is slow. Is that what you intended?
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
J. Clarke wrote:

code doesn't mean it stayed that way. Apple has been known to break as many standards as MS.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Eugene wrote:

So what code that runs on BSD on a non-Mac PowerPC doesn't run on a Mac?
--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:40:04 -0400, "J. Clarke"

a better question might be: What code that runs on a mac runs *anywhere* else?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Lets see, On this 5 year old iMac I run Mac versions of
IE Windows media player Netscape (7.2) MS Office (sans Access) AOL IM Quicken Photoshop iTunes Reunion Palm Desktop Quicktime Norton Personl FW Norton AV
Program that I run that do NOT run on windoze include
iMovie iPhoto Safari Thoth
All the programs that I run Mac version of are fully compatible for trading files with Windoze machines (since I do that regularly with a Dell Laptop) I I have no idea why someone thinks that Mac's don't have two button mice. I have one and it works fine.
I spend a lots of time working on large scale windows deployments and enterpise architectures of 25,000 + seats for the US Intelligence Community and I would not use a Mac for that but for a home or small business or for an specialized server install they simply can't be beat. They have a useful life of at least twice what a PC does and s I've never had a hardware problem on any of the 8 Macs I've owned. If you can't look at the issue objectively that's fine but to simply say they're a toy means you really havn't looked at the issue with any depth.
Allen Catonsville, MD
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I get all tingly when I sit down at my eldest son's new dual processor Mac. Several GBs of RAM. Set up especially for video editing and graphics rendering, it seems to warp space and time.
But then, $2.5k, plus the monitor(s) ought to buy something!
No wonder big power tools look to be a bargain! And they last a lot longer, too.
Patriarch
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@erehwon.com says...

primary development platform, but it is my understanding that its only deficiency is in games.
There is a package called StarOffice that mimics MS Office. There are CAD packages, but I don't know how compatible. And its networking is why Linux powers a lot of Internet servers.
And you won't need anti-virus software :-).
I keep swearing to go back to it, but I just haven't got to the point of taking the time.
And it will take more time. It's not as simple as installing Windoze, but it's a lot more flexible.
Customer service is as close as Usenet and if all else fails you've got the source :-).
--
Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The answer to your dilemma is win 2000. I have used win2k for several years and it is stable. On another machine I have XP and cannot stand it. You will better off with win 2000 (w2k) with all of your software. You will not have any issues with drivers because if they have a driver for XP than it will work on w2k.
There is a great website out there that will tell you how to turn off the crap in XP and w2k. It is called Black Viper. http://www.blackviper.com / This guy has done a great job in documenting most of the crap in windows XP and w2k.
Were you glad u got Rid of win98? I dropped it like a bad habit. The laptop from which I write this email came with win98 and a year ago I wiped it out and upgraded the os to win 2000. It has word, ppt, xls, Norton av, Diskeeper, and other stuff. It runs great on 320mb RAM and an old P3 266mhz . I had all sorts of issues with lockups and the LCD blinking. Since I upgraded to win2k. Notta problem. I was going to replace it ( Toshiba Satellite PRO 4300) and I did not since the upgrade. I have been thinking of replacing it with RedHat 9 but have not gotten around to it. There really is no need to yet.
I use Linux daily in my job and I would not recommend it based on the programs you have. There are great alternatives ( Open Office, Ximian, star Office etc.) But it would be a major upheaval to you daily routine. I can hear the Linux Purist's now. If you insist on kicking the tries I would recommend you try it on your old machine once you get the Dell snafu (BTW, why don't you canx the order?)resolved.
Or, try installing linux on a VmWare. Cool stuff that allows you to run your windows applications and switch to a full Linux OS running inside of windows or you can switch to full screen Linux. Real Cool stuff if you feel technically challenged.
HTH Rich

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

My experience is completely different. I find XP inherently more stable and reliable the W2k, and so do all of my clients.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I had 2000 on a box for a bit. It was pig slow just like all the NT based OS stuff that I have tried. I think these things are great for IT guys but slow down a single user.
That's my big problem with XP. It's big and it's slow. When I rolled the new desktop back to 98 SE, it ran much faster.
Apps loaded faster. Switching between apps was faster. Boot and shut down was faster.
None of them boot as fast as DOS and DOS didn't boot as fast as CPm.
I know that the new OS models have more to do - but they do a lot of crap that I don't want them to do.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@erehwon.com says...

... and even worse if you are using a network server for data storage. NT box at work would take a second to save a 5 meg file. It was "upgraded" to a faster processor and Win2000. It now takes about 15 to 20 seconds to save that same 5 meg file. Problem is, that 5 meg file is a file for an organizer (Keynote). The file is saved every time a change is made and I navigate away from the application. If switching between that app and a file it points to (one of the purposes of that application), I wind up twiddling my thumbs more than doing work. I finally wound up saving the file locally -- not a good thing, because local files don't get backed up in our setup.
    IT folks have looked into it, their answer is that W2k is just slow on network transactions.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

XP is a resource hog, that's for sure. You need at least a P4 and 512mb+. Anything less, especially ram, seriously compromises performance.

It really depends on the application. If you want performance, there's a much higher ceiling with XP. Dual processors, Raid, up to 4gb ram. Almost all my graphics clients are running dual processor XP boxes stuffed full of ram. Yet many corporate clients still run W98 desktop boxes and don't plan to upgrade anytime soon. For word processing, spreadsheets, a bit of graphics, and email, they're just fine.
At least there's some choice in OS's available. Most desktop business users are better served by Microsoft, with graphics users it's a toss-up between Mac and PC, and Linux a strong alternative running on various platforms.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Site Timeline

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.