OT - How Unique!

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CNN: "Toyota's president Akio Toyoda apologized for the gas pedal problems that have forced the recall of millions of vehicles, Japanese media reported."
What a difference from the approach other auto manufacturer's have used when faced with a major problem. Apologize. The norm has been deny it. deny it. deny it. Then grudgingly fix it while continuing to deny a real problem.
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wrote:

My first car was a Honda Civic. Honda recalled the fenders because mud collected up underneath and rusted the fender out from the inside. They replaced my fenders, no charge. They stood by their product and when I needed a new car I remembered what happened and my new car was another Honda. Perhaps American auto-makers do not stand behind their product like others which explains why Japanese owners are so loyal to their brand.
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Yep. Japan gained their foothold in the American auto industry during the early to mid 1970's when Detroit started building disposable cars. During that period we owned a 71 Chevy Vega GT and I needn't say anything more (Except it was Motor Trend's car of the year - Yipee!). After a combined 6 months in the shop waiting for parts and repairs, we traded for a new 74 Cutlass Supreme. In four months we started seeing rust around the opera windows. GM "fixed" that and it immediately restarted. The electrical system was a mess. When we got rid of it three years later the entire car was rusted out. The trunk latch was held in place with bondo. That is when we traded for a Volvo which we drove 130K miles and turned it over to our daughter for a college car and she put 40+K more on it before trade. When Volvo out priced us (2 cars later) we turned to Hondas, and our current 160,000 mile Toyota. Other than normal maintenance (shocks, brakes, etc) the Toyota has NEVER BEEN REPAIRED! In fairness, our other vehicle, a Chevy Duramax has also been very good at 42K miles. Also, by comparison, we slipped an '86 Blazer in with the Volvos and drove it for 8-10 years. But it saw three radiators, a steering sector, two water pumps, etc, etc, etc.
RonB
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RonB wrote:

Well, I'd say it's not been much different afaict. They started out w/ "no problem" and "driver error" and blaming floor mats for the problem and have only now come out since it's clear that it's going to be a major financial hit so they're trying to recover.
That said, the congresscritters trying to make hay w/ hearings, etc., are entirely out of line, too...
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Yes, they danced a bit too. But a public apology is not common in that industry. Attorneys usually won't stand for it. It probably speaks to the Japanese honor system. But it still outclasses the approach Ford, Chevy and Audi used. "Nothing really wrong, they made us fix it."
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Actually the floor mats wher part of the problem the rest of the problem is the American company made parts.

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The first year that the Ford Focus was manufactured there were 156 campaign notices that the dealers had to deal with. Do you recall the last Toyota recall? GM had an ongoing repair campaign on most any one of their vehicles when I worked for an Oldsmobile dealer for 10 years in the lat 70's and 80's. I don't recall Ford ever admitting that their older Mustangs and Pintos were bombs on wheels and were likely to explode when rear ended. The later Crown Victoria's had the problem also. Police departments dropped them like used condo__.
As far as Toyota claiming driver error, I don't recall that being said but would agree that drive error is what results in a majority of the accidents caused by a stuck accelerator pedal. If you are driving you should know how to stop the vehicle, simply turning off the ignition, shifting into neutral, or pushing in on the clutch should not be that much of a request to stop a vehicle. And there is the brake pedal.. Tests shown in Car and Driver indicate that a V6 Camry requires 16 additional feet to stop from 70 mph under full throttle when braking than with no throttle, about 88 additional feet when braking from 100 mph. IIRC drivers training instructs the many ways to stop a vehicle should something like this happen.
I currently have an affected 07 Tundra and I am concerned but not in any way fearful of driving the vehicle or think that Toyota should be doing anything different than what they are currently doing to solve the problem. The problem was brought to my attention by Toyota late last summer.
I think the question should be what is CTI, the American maker of the pedal, doing to do to help resolve the problem.
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Leon wrote: ...

AFAICT, building to spec on the originals and shipping a redesigned part...
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It would seem odd that the the manufacturers that used CTI and are stopping production would submit defective spec's to CTI to start with. Perhaps QC was a problem, from what I understand the pedals wore or broke prematurely.
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Leon wrote:

Why? Things like that happen all the time.
What I've seen indicates they're a wire design, not purely mechanical and (inferring) the failure is actually electronic. That's from news reports which are, of course, inherently suspect on anything at all technical as for getting the details right.
--
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I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my theory...... Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me crazy.
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Let's see. How do you spell a raspberry:
"Ppppppfffffffftttttttt!!!!!
Did I do good? :^)
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Not enough spray....LOL
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You are right """"""""Ppppppfffffffftttttttt!!!!! """""""""
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THIS is 'good'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWGn6_EH2gM

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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:24:06 -0800 (PST), the infamous Robatoy

No, Toy. That's just downright SCARY!
-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw
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I know I'm going to get raspberries from many here, but this IS my theory...... Toyota has decided to allow GM to regain some of their foothold in the market. Those guys have been in bed together for quite a long time and many projects (Tundra, Matrix/Vibe etc...) Industry insiders tell me that gas pedal issue is nowhere near the catastrophe Toyota has made it out to be. I think they are helping out their GM buddies. Call me crazy.
IMHO the big deal is that Toyota "has" a recall. When I was working for an Olds dealer in 1986 we built a new dealership near a new Toyota dealership. Dealers hold on to warranty replacement parts until a factory rep examines them or gives the "ok" to scrap the parts. When we and the Toyota dealership had been in our new locations for 3 or so months I visited the Toyota parts manager and noticed his "warranty bin". IIRC there were 4 or 5 warranty parts, my warranty bin probably had 80-90 defective parts. Toyota and GM have been in business together since the come back of the Nova in the early 80's and the Geo car line that Chevrolet used to sell. AAMOF GM was building one of the Honda models at one time, although it was sold directly by Isuzu to Honda. Isuzu had the same vehicle but GM built that vehicle for Isuzu. Long ago Isuzu built the small Chevy Luv pickups, some time in the 90's that reversed and GM built Isuzu pickups. They are all in bed with each other in some way shape or form but it is not news to hear about an American car builder with recall problems, it is out of the ordinary for Toyota or Honda to have recalls at all. IIRC this recall is supposed to cost Toyota $240,000,000.00. That is a mere drop in the bucket compared to what a typical GM recall would cost. I would speculate to say that GM probably would not have been in trouble at all had it not spent so much money on correcting something that should not have been a problem to start with.
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:04:14 -0800, Robatoy wrote:

I came to the same conclusion. It was reported that the problem was gradual. The pedal progressively got "stickier" over time. In addition, it was said that the cause was friction between two parts of the linkage caused by condensation.
Back when drivers knew how their cars worked and paid attention to things that changed, they (or at least I) would have raised the hood, sprayed on a little WD-40, and repeated as necessary :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 00:26:22 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

But the part is apparently enclosed. Some word out about a "fix" being the insertion of a metal shim to provide clearance on vehicles "in the field".
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:19:16 -0600, the infamous "Leon"

Condensation (+ rust?) was apparently the culprit.
"Toyota dealers in the U.S. have been swamped with calls from concerned owners but had few answers as the recalls snowballed. Elkhart, Ind.-based CTS Corp., which made the parts, is cranking out redesigned gas pedal assemblies that fix the problem, which is caused by condensation around an arm attached to the pedal and springs that send the pedal back to the idle position.Toyota dealers in the U.S. have been swamped with calls from concerned owners but had few answers as the recalls snowballed. Elkhart, Ind.-based CTS Corp., which made the parts, is cranking out redesigned gas pedal assemblies that fix the problem, which is caused by condensation around an arm attached to the pedal and springs that send the pedal back to the idle position."
-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw
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