OT: At least there was one

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person in the previous administration who knew how to keep it in his pants.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cidQ9&ncidq6&e=2&u=/ap/20040720/ap_on_re_us/sept__11_berger_probe
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George wrote:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cidQ9&ncidq6&e=2&u=/ap/20040720/ap_on_re_us/sept__11_berger_probe
a bunch of neocons stole 'em.     mahalo,     genghis khan
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Stole what, Berger's pants? Looks from here like Berger's the thief.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.
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Isn't he one of Kerry's election advisors, or is that another person of the same name? If it's the same guy, hardly fits the definition of a "neocon" (whatever that's supposed to be...), and probably not much of a "trusted advisor".
Dave Hinz
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It's him.
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 19:08:17 -0600, Dave Balderstone

So, just so I have this straight, one of John Kerry's election advisers, and Clinton's National Security Adviser, removed documents critical to the 9/11 investigation from the National Archives?
What other scoundrels and/or Clinton leftovers (but I repeat myself) is John Kerry keeping the company of? Doesn't say much for Kerry's judgement if he had this sort of person advising him. Brings up the question - Did Kerry not know, or did he not care? I mean, pretty big thing not to mention in the job interview, isn't it? So did Berger lie to Kerry about having a very tarnished past, or did Kerry know about it and not care?
This guy is looking more and more like SlickWillie all the time.
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That is what's being reported.
<http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,126249,00.html

Willie's defending him, and apparently knew about the investigation some months ago...
<http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm
djb
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On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:12:30 -0600, Dave Balderstone

abcnews.com has it as well, so the people who ignore Fox can't claim it's just them. Looks like now that his adviser has been found out, Kerry has given him the heave-ho. Obviously it's not the deed that bothers Kerry, it's that Berger was caught. Good to know that Kerry is following in his apparent role-model's footsteps. (NOT)

Slipperier and slipperier all the time. Cue the "waaah, you can't use guilt by association" apologists in 3...2...1...
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How's that possible, wasn't Willie disbarred?
Joe
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Defending verbally, not legally...
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On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 01:30:02 +0000, Dave Hinz wrote:

One of the others on his re-election commitee is Joe Wilson, the nuetral, independent, objective investigator of the Yellowcake/Niger Bush lies false statements in his State of the Union address. Turns out his investigation was a farce, the false documents weren't the basis for the intelligence, his CIA employeed wife _did_ get him the trip to Niger to "investigate" and the British and our home grown investigators have completely discredited him.
I got a kick out of Daschle today saying Berger"should be given the benefit of the doubt" as if they haven't jumped on every unfounded piece of crap they can throw against the wall against Bush.
-Doug
--
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples
then you and I will still each have one apple.
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I wasn't aware that Berger's PAST was tarnished, though it will be now. I'm sure that not everyone in BJ's administration was dishonest, though I have to base that on general principal rather than specific evidence, same as with Baby Bush's administration. Hmm, Laura looks honest.

Wilson was never assigned to investigate false statements made in the State of the Union message. He was assigned to investigate the allegation that Iraq had tried to import yellowcake from Niger.

Based on what, exactly? Please cite _something_.

Yet those forgeries WERE submitted to the IAEA and were misrepresented to the IAEA as authentic.

Indeed, she did recommend him for the task. Can anyone explain how the fact that fact alone could mean he was unsuitable or biased?
Does anyone claim that his wife, a field agent, had so much authority that she could get him picked for the job over better qualified officials?
Please be specific in your answers, please cite something.

Again, they say there was a basis for the claim but cite no evidence beyond the fact that Niger received a single trade delegation from Iraq.
According to Bush there is an old saying in Texas, maybe you never heard it: "Fool us once, shame on you... and we won't be fooled again!" It's rather good advice, from your good buddy Baby Bush. How about if you try it out?

He's admitted to it. Doesn't leave much room for doubt. I can see taking notes to be used for his testimony, but not sneaking them out. he should have submitted his notes for review. And there is no way he can justify removing anything of the stored materials, even if it wasn't classified!
--

FF

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Fredfighter responds:

True. The following is part of what I got from an old friend yesterday. Kind of sums up my opinion of Bush & Babies.
"Things you have to believe to be a Republican today:
Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony. The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.
Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy."
Charlie Self "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty." George Bernard Shaw, Caesar and Cleopatra (1901)
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This should be an unbiased list, I bet. Let's see...

Right, because it's impossible for someone to go from "tolerable" to "intolerable", is that it?

You are actually proposing that the war in Iraq was a diversion about finding Bin Laden? You must be aware of all of the Democrats who also held Hussein to be a danger and someone who must be stopped, right? The whole thing with the UN inspections being deferred for a decade, that whole bit?

Because of course, Cuba, China, and Vietnam are exactly the same in regard to physical proximity, degree of intensity, and so on, riiiiight.

Even the UN, in their perpetual bickering and ineffectiveness, was able to see that Iraq was a problem.

Cite please? Clinton's legacy in regards to military pay and benefits is blisteringly clear - as with most recent Democrat presidents, the military (and it's members and their families) suffered under him.

The democrats failed to do anything about this during the 8 years Clinton was president as well.

A president lying under oath to congress, is an impeachable offense, yes.

A president acting on best available information to make decisions (that even your boy Kerry agreed with and you know it), you mean.
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Dave Hinz wrote:

I was one of a lot of Republicans who understand that war (viz. killing people and destroying things) should be the absolute last resort. We were told that Afghanistan was harboring Bin Laden and had been since the Clinton administration. He was proven to be responsible, in the main, for 9/11. To attack with the intent of destroying Al Qaeda and removing its leadership: OK.
We sent in enough troops to scatter the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Both are still very much in business. We bungled the operation.
Insofar as Iraq was concerned, we saw no evidence of WMDs. The aluminum tubing and yellow cake incidents were debunked in the newspapers long before the State of the Union address. We attacked anyway. Big mistake. We have had several changes of reasons for attacking including the current favorite: we are better off without Saddam. Puke. Now the administration has lost all credibility. Toss in the multi-trillion dollar national debt (much of which is held by Asian countries) and you get two reasons why I cannot vote for Bush.
    mahalo,     jo4hn
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So as a Republican you will vote for the most liberal ticket in the history of the Democratic party, or you just won't vote?
Joe
and you

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Joe Tylicki wrote:

thinking regardless of party or label. I left the Republican party when a nephew informed me that I was not really a Republican anyway. I am now an independent which makes more sense. I value honesty and competence rather highly. The current administration displays precious little of these commodities. I will be voting for John Kerry.
    mahalo,     jo4hn
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Same here. In 2000 my candidate of choice was John McCain. Previously I often (but not always) voted Republican.
But today's Republican party isn't really the Republican party of old. Visionary Republican presidents like Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and Eisenhower wouldn't have a chance in today's Republican party -- they'd be branded as "liberals."
It used to be that the country had an understanding of what it meant to be a Rockefeller Republican or a Southern Democrat. It used to be that the parties understood what it meant to have a big tent. It used to be that the parties worked for inclusion and consensus. Now the Republicans are all racing each other to see who can move the farthest to the right. The Democrats are confused in their message, alternately trying to pander to the left to win the nomination and then to move to the center so they can be elected, and are really only unified by a common dislike of the incumbent.
And Bush is so inflexible and simplistic in his approach to complicated long-term problems that you have to go back to the days of Harding and Coolidge to find anything similar. Lots of people voted for him because he promised to be a consensus builder, and would all have our cake and eat it too. Now that the people know Bush, many will be more skeptical the second time around.
At its core, this election is really about whether or not you believe that Bush has screwed things up, and whether or not you believe that Kerry is likely to do a better or a worse job. Myself, I will be voting for Anybody But Bush.
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Ah! Is this why Bush refused to testify under oath to the 9/11 Commission (which (the lack of oath) was unprecedented, so save your excuses).
Renata
-snip

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Is it really?

Can you back up your claim that it's unprecedented? Also, tell me again how lying under oath isn't worse than not lying under oath?
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