O/T: Welcome to $4/gal gasoline

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Although, ultimately, a finite product, there's a lot of still to be had. You might have to bump off a regime or two to get it, but there's lots out there.
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I wrote:

------------------------------------
"Leon" wrote:

----------------------------------- Sorry but there are already alternate sources of energy available that are cost effective vs fossil fuels at less than $4/gal.
The cost of gasoline today does not reflect the total cost of gasoline, but that is an accounting problem.
As a nation, we just have to get up off our dead and dying and get started solving our energy independance opportunity.
Lew
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You know... if we could capture excess heat from various sources (houses, cars, bigger electronics like computers) and turn it in to useful energy, we'd be able to offset some of our energy needs.
I know... This is step 1 in the process: 1. Some idea 2. ??? 3. Profit!
Puckdropper
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"Puckdropper" wrote:

--------------------------- It is a very productive idea.
From a previous post: ------------------------- Start a program to upgrade the insulation of our buildings including replacing windows.
A program like that could get the construction industry healthy in a hurry and be paid for with power savings.. -----------------------
SFWIW, I made a pretty decent living selling replacement indoor lighting systems for industrial manufacturing buildings in the 1970s.
Back in those days, power cost was about $.02/KWH and you had two years to recoup the investment.
It was a good investment under those conditions.
Can you imagine how much better an investment it is today?
Lew
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On Thu, 24 Feb 2011 14:52:26 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"

You snooze, you lose. The gov't, in its infinite wisdom, has pretty much phased out energy retrofit grants as of this year.

Now if we can just get those LED makers to reduce the prices of the new LED fixtures...
-- "Human nature itself is evermore an advocate for liberty. There is also in human nature a resentment of injury, and indignation against wrong. A love of truth and a veneration of virtue. These amiable passions, are the latent spark. If the people are capable of understanding, seeing and feeling the differences between true and false, right and wrong, virtue and vice, to what better principle can the friends of mankind apply than to the sense of this difference?" --John Adams
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wrote in message

We are think close to the same lines here, I believe the media inadvertently conditions its audience to expect high prices for "what ever non valid reason" and the oil companies jump on the opportunity to oblige. Imagine the outrage if "ALL" gas stations went up 15 cents per gallon with out notice from the media. We are not quite as outraged if we are not blind sided. The media creates the opportunity for the oil companies and or brokers take advantage of a sensationalized story.
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"Dave In Texas" wrote:

------------------------------------------- I've got to stop making all these "glittering generalities". <G>
Let's start over.
The big boys are no longer involved with a lot of existing fields in the US, they have sold off those drilling rights and moved on, pocketing the easy money.
They are sitting on the development of existing leases they have, lobbying to get total control of all available drilling areas. (Think deep well, offshore in the Atlantic, Pacific, as well as the Gulf for examples).
The existing fields, sold off by the big boys, being operated by the 2nd or 3rd level players are another thing.
These companies can afford to put down another well in a known field at even $65-$75/bbl.
That is also going on all over SoCal, and while it puts a few bucks in some people's pockets, it does little to address our energy problems.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

## Nah. Muslims killing Muslims is the norm.

## Dunno. Right now, at ~$3/gallon it's still cheaper than at anytime since 1918 (with one exception under Carter)

## Uh, no. Big Macs still cost the same as they did last year.

## Everything's got to be somewhere.
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Due in large part to turning corn into fuel.

Well, yes, it is. When the supply of a product increases, the price decreases. That's Economics 101.
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We cannot drill for oil here because the powers that be are sitting on it, waiting for $15 a gallon gas down the line. Plus, it would disturb the striped slug, porcupine caribou mouse, Kanab pond snail, and spotted roufus titcatcher.
And we can't have that.
We don't have a hell of a lot left, but we're sitting right on top of it in our own country, and we won't go and get it. Seems like it's time to clean house of tyrants and fertilize a few trees.
Let's get reasonable. Let's drive smaller, more efficient cars. Let's insulate. Let's just plug the holes where we are using too much. That would be a big start.
Or, we could wait for Barry to produce all those millions of "green jobs" waiting somewhere mysteriously in the wings to be produced with all that green money they must have lining the halls of Congress somewhere. (I do wonder where all that money is stored.) Or continue spending it on "studies" done by political supporters, teacher union types, and dope smoking hippies doing studies on the sex habits of college freshmen. (I applied for that, but was denied as being overqualified.) I'm thinking of building an underground house. If I am going to end up living in a cave, it's going to be a good one.
Steve
Heart surgery pending? Read up and prepare. Download the book $10 http://cabgbypasssurgery.co
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No sooner than we are willing to pay that price. The perceived supply and demand really has no effect on gasoline prices so much as the other pricing stratigy, "What The Market Will Bare". If we are stupid enough to pay high prices they are certainly going to charge those prices.
I paid $3.17 for premium at a Chevron station today, regular was $2.89, what are you guys in California willing to pay?
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"Leon" wrote:

--------------------------------------- Depends on location.
87 octane at Chevron varies from about $3.55 to $3.85/gal based on location which puts premium north of $4/gal.
Arco, a BP unit, operates on cash & carry basis, at $0.10-$0.15/gal less.
Based on your numbers looks like TX likes low fuel prices which shouldn't come as any surprise.
Personally I'd like to see $6-8/gal gasoline, the sooner the better.
It just might get some serious alternate energy research off the ground.
Nothing like a pocket book issue to get your attention.
Lew
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True, but.... It will also mean many will have to get another extra vehicle. You can't tow a 21 foot runabout with a Volkswagen turbo diesel. You can't pull a bobcat or backhoe with one, either. Nor can you carry much mulch or gravel in a mini pickup, and a larger vehicle will be necessary to tote a new set of cabinets to their owner.
Factor in everyone paying more for _everything_ when fuel goes significantly higher. In the US, virtually everything a person buys has traveled by truck.
--
Jim in NC


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Lew Hodgett wrote:

## Part of the difference is tax: California's is $46.6/gallon, Texas is $0.20.

## Of course that presumes the holdup on alternate energy is merely the price. What if the price is only ONE of the difficulties. For example, how much would it cost and how long would it take to outfit 300,000 gas stations to dispense hydrogen? Or how long to build generating plants to provide the electricity to charge electric cars? Would anyone STAND for a new generating facility in their neighborhood?
No, the real fix is for the United States (with UN approval) to declare the oil reserves of Arabia, Iraq, and Iran, to be "World Resources" and to take them over with a view towards fair distribution to all.
Just kidding on that last.
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You think like Obama, with the same flaw. Alternate energy is fine, but we need oil now to function. Drilling bans and sluggish permitting plus EPA regs and crap like that has made us to be more dependent on foreign oil. So do renewable work, but don't kill us until then!

Please send some of your own money from your own bank account to Washington D.C. And also donate to programs to teach street people to install Chinese-made solar panels to give a great boost to our economy.

Damn right!

have a nice day, woodstuff
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Leon wrote:

I paid $3.03 (regular) in Indianapolis today, and I filled up feeling fortunate it wasn't higher. Considering "What The Market Will Bare" certainly is another aspect.. ; )
Bill
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Naked gas station staff?
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On 2/22/2011 2:40 AM, Bob Martin wrote:

They might be a little more careful with that hot coffee, no? ; )
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Moon Over Mobil
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3.17 is what regular costs in MA. At home in CT it is 3.34. Glad I live in a border town as they are proposing another 3 on gas here.
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