No more Jet tools for me

Page 4 of 5  

Greg O wrote:

That's all right, we all miss stuff. But the $10 was just an example. If the company cost is $15 or $20 they shouldn't be charging more for handling unless they don't care about good will.
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Very inaccurate. In my company, we can ship a single item that will cost maybe $50 to process and minute later ship a triler of floor loaded product that takes 3 people 90 minutes. Should I add the cost and divide by to to get my actual cost per order? If the same exact process has to be gone throu for each order, it will work, but if a $5000 order takes more time to process, pull, pack, ship, than a $20 order, the average would be scewed.
In the case of the belt, they should have them to just drop in an envelope, put on a label and stamp and it is done. That is far less than gathering six items, packing them for a single shipment weiging and doing a UPS shipment. How about a truckload order that takes over and hour load on the trailer?

Agreed
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Ah, but I didn't say it was a useful number. One would be a fool to just put all orders in a pile and divide the cost by the number of orders. That sounds almost like what they did for the belt. It makes little sense to combine highly different activities and charge the same for each activity. Most local firms, for example, have an at store price and a delivery cost. That makes sense and lets the customer choose and if the store is honest and charges the actual delivery cost, it should make any difference to the store.
Separating handling charges from the actual cost tends to be fraudulent anyway, since customers often/usually look at the item cost, compare companies, and then are shocked by the handling and shipping costs. If the handling cost is actually a part of the item cost, it should be handled that way. A company that sell items for delivery (mail order for example) shouldn't be charging much more for delivery than the actual cost of mail or freight; the handling charge should be included in the selling price just like other operating costs.
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If you sell strictly mail-order, you can include the handling costs as part of the price. If you sell both retail and mail-order, the handling cost will be different for each and will vary according to order size.
The problem with including handling charges in the price is competition. No one want to be first to do it. I've seen a few TV infomercials where they sell you some junk for $19.99 and you get a second one free, just pay separate shipping and handling charges. Now that is pure scam as they know ahead they will be giving you two and it is no more time to pull two from the bin as it is to pull one.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

That depends on the method they're using. If they have all the product warehoused at FedEx then FedEx may have it prepackaged for example (warehousing of products that will be shipped via FedEx is a service FedEx offers).
--
--John
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On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 04:52:37 GMT, USENET READER

=====================Start a business and you will see... LOL Even the ground that the building sits on costs a company....
Bob G.
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wrote:

Well, they should sack some of their useless staff and get their costs under control. Amazon and Barnes & Noble can give reasonable shipping costs so what exactly is Jet's problem?
I suspect the original belt is made by Gates. Give them a call and find a distributor that does not gouge on price and shipping.
Barry Lennox
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Huge difference. Amazon, B&N are in the mail order business. Jet is not, and does not want to be. They want to sell through distributors. Order the part from your local dealer.
What makes you think they have useless staff?
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/



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wrote:

Those are arbitrary labels, and there is no huge difference.
Amazon, B&N are NOT in the mail order business (maybe the Post Office is) They are in the business of offering something a customer wants in exchange for a fair price, just as Jet is (or should be)
Most enlightened companies understand their real role is to offer whatever it takes to satisfy, and perhaps delight, customers and keep them coming back. They may well "want" to deal through distributors. I do *not* want to, and prefer to deal direct. My view is as valid as theirs. OTOH, if they don't want customers, then fine, get rid of them all, that will solve their annoying spares problems.

They don't seem to get the point above, in my experience, and that of the OP.
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The great thing about captialism in America is that the business gets to decide what distribution channels it wants to use.

So did you buy your car directly from GM or did Henry Ford come to your house to help you pick a color? Yes, it gripes me to pay the destination charge on a car that I could easily pick up at the factory myself. Oh, them sumbitches need some enlightening.
My view is as valid as

It may be your view, but it probably won't change things very much. You do get to vote with your dollars though, and can buy whatever brand you want from whatever sources it is available. For maximum efficiency, some choose to set up for direct sales, others do not as they typicaly don't have the volume of sales to justify the cost of doing so.
My company has a minimum of $300 for stock items. Much more for special runs, usually about $100 with no setup charge. While it is not a consumer oriented business, it is not profitable do do less so we don't. We won't ship UPS or mail because it takes to much time and cost to much to pack the stuff for it. OUr choice. We lost two customemers when we implemented that.

You can have an opinion. Useless to you, but not tot he distributors they serve well. Ed
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.

I have purchased a few Pontiacs from one of the GM Zone offices in the past BEFORE they stopped the practice.. Was a nightmare however to register the 1st Car however... The State DMV was unsure how to handle the " Certificate of Origin" That GMAC handed me.. it was a learning experience to say the least....
I also purchased one of my Corvettes with Museum (Factory Delivery) not only did I pay normal destination charges as if I picked it up from the local dealer but I also plunked down 500 bucks ( extra for the privilege top pick it up myself...).. It was worth it however since I followed the car thru its final production and was allowed to be the 1st to start it up and drive it off the assembly line myself...
Bob Griffiths
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wrote:

It's the same in most of the world, and the great thing about democracy is that I get to decide where to spend my dollars.

Have done neither. I get them from other folk, then do them up.

OK you win, I'm sure Jet's processes and systems will run a lot more efficiently and economically without those annoying customers demanding this and that. I'll oblige.
Actually, there is little to separate most of the biggies on price and performance, so here's an opportunity for one company to really differentiate itself from the pack. Offer same-day dispatch, minor parts for free, and others at a modest cost without gouging on shipping. If the tools are as reliable as they claim, it will hardly cost them, and their customers will be delighted. Otherwise the sour taste continues.

Fair enough, your company, keep working on losing customers.

Sounds like me and my opinion are worthless to JET, fair enough. In the next 6 months, I'll be picking up a bit of equipment, so after-sales service and policy will be considered.
Barry Lennox
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Umm, lots of people use to do that if they had the time, especially since they could save about $1000 which was nearly 1/4 years salary. But I think the dealer franchises put a stop to that long ago. Otoh, my neighbor last fall flew half way across the U.S. and drove his new motorhome back, saving $10,000 over the sales price of a local dealer. Might not be much for high living folk, but for over 50 percent of the working people it is 3 months salary. Not bad for a 4 day trip.
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Barry Lennox wrote:

Actually, they are in the mail order business, or more precisely the online order business if you want to split hairs about ordering via the Internet not being "mail order". By that token Sears isn't in the mail order business and Sears _invented_ the mail order business. But perhaps you're too young to be familiar with "mail order" that actually uses the mail.
As far as Amazon goes, Amazon doesn't keep any stock, they pass the order through to whoever does have the stock, just like many other online resellers. Usually with Amazon it goes to Ingram, the major wholesaler of books in the US, who then drop-ships to the customer. So they're using a different business model from either Sears or Jet.

The real issue seems to be that Jet hasn't figured out that the manner in which they provide spart parts is part of their marketing effort and they should do so in a manner that makes the customer feel that he wants to buy more stuff from Jet. Many folks buy from Sears because Sears has parts for 30 year old tools and appliances available on their Web site, orderable with minimal effort and at a reasonable price.
--
--John
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On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 10:09:07 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Whatever semantics or labels you use, they are still in the business of business, ie: offering something a customer wants in exchange for a fair price. That is a fundamental.
Too young? Hardly! I see in my 1902 Sears catalogue Stanley planes are priced from 9c to 37c.

Exactly, so what's hard about copying the best bits of some others' "business model" ? IF they cared about customers, they could do it. That they choose not to, is their business, but illustrates how they see customers. or ex-customers to be more correct.
Barry Lennox
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Barry Lennox wrote:

So you're 120 years old?

There's nothing "hard" about it, but you can't think of everything at once.
Try starting a business and see how many things _you_ don't do right.

--
--John
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OK - the problem I have with that theory of what businesses are in business to do is this:
If I work hard and decide to spend money on your product, I want it to work as advertised, and if it breaks or wears out, I want to be able to fix it in a reasonable period of time. Something like a belt breaking or needing to be replaced should not keep the tool out of commission for weeks.
I mean - a table saw uses blades that you should be able to buy from damn near any store. When the blade gets dull, or you need a different blade for cutting plywood instead of ripping 2x, you can go anywhere to get the blade. Can you imagine how tough it would be to work with a tool if they used a proprietary blade that you could only get from them? You would be at the mercy of the supply chain.
And today - with this "just in time" bullshit, the stores don't stock the parts you need. One store sells a miter gauge for a table saw, but not the hold-down clamps. If the saw needs a belt, ant the belts sgtretch or break or wear out, then they should stock the belts, or have a way to get them sooner rather than later.
One other problem is that with these companies merging, buying each ohter out, or moving offshore, is that the parts come from all over the damn place from companies in bumfuck china or wherever, and they don't make the parts but every so many months. Or the dealer only orders parts from Delta or a distributor every month or so - or worse - whenever they have sold a certain volume of parts and tools per some corporate bean counter. This is for no other reason than to hit some target profit level dictated by some beancounter who feels that the companies business isn't to make a tool - it's to get a return on investment whether they sell saws or package up bags of dogshit. They don't care about your needs, or even doing a good job - they only care about their almighty dollar!
Barry Lennox wrote:

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Reasonable expectations. Parts should also be available for a few years after a model is dicontinued.

That would change the dynamices of a tool buying decision. OTOH, if your transmission fails on your Chevy, you may have to buy a GM part to get if fixed. Sure, starters and alternators are readily available on the aftermarket, but if you need a new door, it may have to come from a GM dealer. You are very much at the mercy of the supply chain.

Maybe. If a store sell two lathes a years, should he have a belt in stock at all times? How long to belts last? That $20 belt willl tie sup maybe 412 for a few years waiting for someone to buy it. Bandsaw blades wear out a few times a year so they stock a lo tof them. If you are that conerned, why don't you keep a spare in the shop? Most companies carry a stock of parts for machines that they know will fail over time. We probably have $20,000 in motors, hydraulip pumps, water pumps, solenoids, controllers, etc. Some sit for a long time, but if needed, it is nice to have rahter than have a machine down and not produce $500 an hour. If you are concerned about your saw losing a belt late at night, keep a spare. Prudent to do so.

Yes, that can be a problem

. `

You and I contribute to this problem. (Insert Pogo quote here) What was the return on your stock portfolio, IRS or 401k plan? When stocks do not perform we bitch and want to see better performance, more profits.

Some do, others do have honest concerns. They MUST make a profit though, or they cannot continue to serve you with spart parts, new products, etc. Do you think ball players are more concerned with winning the game or making millions? Movie stars? IMO, a lot of things should be changed but we have to all get together on it.
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snipped-for-privacy@attglobal.net writes:

So they have to pay a salary to the poor lady you abused on the phone. They have to pay a salary to the person who picks the order, the one who packs the order, packing materials cost, inventory depreciation, and the actual shipping costs. The margin on that belt, while perhaps significant (a GPM of 30-40% probably), is peanuts when compared to the salaries of all the folks doing the S+H. TANSTAAFL.
scott
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On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 18:46:11 -0500, Bob G.

You could buy a new and unused pair and still save a bunch of money. <G>
Why does everyone always use OLD panty hose, toothbrushes, wiper blades, etc... when new ones only cost a few bucks?
Barry
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