Newbie hinge question--inset door and reveal

[Wayne Whitney]

Hello,

I'm building a recessed medicine cabinet for a rough opening 24" x 30" with a 1/2" plywood carcass and 11/16" x 2" trim. The inset door will end up about 22" x 27" and hold a 19" x 24" mirror. A few of the door details are confusing me:

1) What reveal should I shoot for with the door inside the trim? I was thinking 1/8", but perhaps that is too large. The overlay of the trim on the inside of the cabinet is 1/16".

2) I don't want a euro-style hinge, so I'm planning on some variant of butt hinge. If I don't want to mortise the hinges, then the hinges' total thickness when closed will have to match my desired reveal, right? So I would use an inset hinge or "no-mortise" hinge. Is it important to use a "partial-wrap" version?

3) I was thinking of making the door the same thickness as the trim, the shelves the same depth as the carcass interior, and relying on the doors as a door stop. Is this reasonable, or should I leave a space between shelves and closed door and use some sort of catch?

4) My door frame will be 1 3/4" wide and perhaps 11/16" thick. Would a rabbet leaving a projection 1/4" wide and 5/16" thick be strong enough to hold a 19" x 24" x 1/8" mirror and a 19" x 24" x 1/4" plywood panel? Depending on the total door weight when I'm done, I'll probably use three hinges. Any help would be very appreciated.

Thanks, Wayne

[Eric Ryder]

The partial wraps will give you some adjustability to/from the jamb side. I like to leave a little extra reveal beyond the hinge-minimum in case the doors swell a bit (gets humid here).

With hardwood frames, I've used two partial wraps on larger glazed doors with no trouble.

[bridger]

correct

partial wrap hinges are for convenience. they're fast to install. plain butt hinges are better looking, IMO.

it makes having all of your domensions and the accurate assembly of your case absolutely critical. get one tiny thing wrong and the doors will bind. I'd leave a gap between the shelves and door and use a magnet catch.

sounds OK.

[Wayne Whitney]

Let me add that all the interior shelves are adjustable (shelf pegs) and hence removable. So if a shelf were to cause the door not to close all the way, I could remove it and shave it down. Does that make the idea workable?

Cheers, Wayne

[Tom Watson]

I'd be happy to try to help you, if you would put up a rough sketch of what you are trying to do, on ABPW.

Some of the things that you have written are confusing me.

I don't know if the front face of the door is supposed to be planar with the front face of the trim.

I don't understand the idea of overlaying the trim to the inside of the box.

I would at least suggest that you go to a 3/16" mirror, as the 1/8" often does not give a true reflection.

Also, I would not use the shelves as a stop, because then you will be banging around the articles on the shelves every time you close the door.

If you could increase the thickness of the carcase material to 5/8", I think that you would be happier with the result.

Regards, Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

[bridger]

I'd still rather have a dedicated catch/stop.

[Tom Watson]

Ya know, Bridge - if'n I unnerstand the man correctly, he could actually use a partial overlay door, which would use the carcase as a stop, and the trim would also lay on the carcase, and be planar with the door face. I can't tell what his trim style is, but, if it was a piece of beaded square stock, or some such, where the section towards the door frame is not reduced, he could use a pivot hinge, or a knife hinge, on the top and bottom, and catch it with a nice bullet, or a mag (although I don't care much for mags and think they're pecky).

Regards, Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

[Wayne Whitney]

Thanks for responding. Unfortunately, I'm not digital camera enabled right now. Let me try to explain more precisely what I have done to clarify things:

I have a 5-sided 1/2" plywood box with interior dimensions 22 1/2" x

27 1/2" x 4 1/2" which I will recess in a 2x6 wall so its front edges are even with the finish wall. I have attached a 2" x 11/16" wooden frame with interior dimensions 22 5/16" x 27 7/16", which covers the exposed edges of the plywood box and will cover the rough opening. The frame came out slightly small, so it overhangs to the interior by 1/8" on the hinge side and 1/16" on the top and other side, flush on the bottom. What I need to do now is inset a door, whose front face is to be coplanar with the wooden frame.

So, at this point:

Is a 1/8" reveal between the frame and door too large? Some euro-hinge discussions I've read talked about 1.0 - 1.5 mm, which is under a 1/16".

Will it look bad if the hinges are mortised into the overhanging frame, so they are surface mounted on the plywood box? If so, I guess I should use a flush trim bit in a router to eliminate the interior overhang of the frame.

Will a 19" x 24" 3/16" mirror and a 1/4" plywood back be adequately supported by a 1/4" x 7/16" rabbet in a 1 3/4" x 11/16" frame?

I'll keep the front edges of the shelves back a bit so the door doesn't hit them, as people have suggested. Any suggestions on catches? My house was built in 1910.

Thanks again, Wayne

[Wayne Whitney]

Hopefully my followup to your other post explains better what I have. Your suggestion is nice, perhaps I should have done it that way. I didn't do that because then I would have had to trim out the edges of the plywood carcass with some solid stock, since they would be exposed when the door is open.

Thanks, Wayne

P.S. The trim is flat stock, with the corners eased slightly.

[Tom Watson]

Facing them out with some solid stock is no great trick.

I don't have time to draw this tonight but I'll take a shot at it tomorrow and post it for you on ABPW.

One thing I'd like to know is if the trim is going to be flush with the wall surface, or overlay it.

Regards, Tom.

"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)

[Wayne Whitney]

The trim overlays the finish wall, I'm thinking of the medicine cabinet like a window. That's another reason I like your partial overlay idea, the reveal on the trim would be even more like a window. Next time I'll do that.

Thanks, Wayne

[bridger]

I think he's after a flush face. at least that's the mental picture I ended up with.

mags have their place. Eye level cabinets prolly isn't it, though...