After reading the "Oops" thread I saw in American Woodworker magazine that there is a series of new blade guards coming out for table saws. They incopororate a riving knife and some even have dust collection capability. One of the criteria is for the guard to be easily removed and replaced too, an incentive to use it.
It got me thinking, after reading about an accident, if you had a better design, would you put the guard back on?
Yes, I would. I use the present guard too, most of the time.
Yeah, that cracks me up. I scanned through that thread, and maybe I missed it. I saw a lot of people saying they, "learned their lesson," but none who the put their guards back on. :-)
Ed, are those after market or only being offered with new saws?
The problem with most guards is that they get in the way of using proper procedure in many set ups. Tough with most to cut 1/2" and shorter pieces and narrow pieces. In some cases more likely to cause kick back if a small piece of cross cut wood gets caught between the guard and the blade.
Some of us have managed to cut ourselves (or worse) with the guard *on*. There is no end to a human beings capacity for stupid behaviour, ........ of which I'm a typical example.
diggerop
Rather difficult to use many kinds of jig with them as well.
I agree that our stupidness can conquer any attempt we take to make things safe.
However, I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade and the guard would've prevented that.
I also agree that making them easier to put on/take off would help matters. I'm thinking of using wingnut fasteners for the back end of mine, and a cam-nut for the front end. Seems like having to dig up the proper wrench can be the deterrent that results in a trip to the ER.
Norm always began his show with the "use proper safety equipment" bit. I never saw him with a guard on his TS, nor do I recall him ever mentioning that he removed it for clarity of his demonstration.
I installed the guard on my Delta hybrid when I got it three years ago. It was removed in the first week and hasn't been back on since.
I try to think through every cut in advance of turning on the saw, asking myself how the sumbitch can hurt me and making sure I handle the piece accordingly.
Larry
Just out of interest, you say "I saw a lot of people talking about how kickback pulled their finger into the blade." I didn't. Makes me wonder if my newsserver is showing all posts. Maybe I'd better contact my ISP and complain.
diggerop
Precisely my dilemma. And they are generally a floppy, poorly designed thing that reeks of cheapest design possible. A pain to install and remove. An overhead makes far more sense, and yet I've not bothered to build or buy one either. Complacency is the death of many a digit.
Greg G.
I'm sure your reader/server is fine.
Exactly. That's the same with any power tool or any tool for that matter.
"I don't need to 'call before I dig.' I remember where they buried that electric line." :-)
Funny. My observation is that if kickback is pulling your finger into the blade, you're putting your fingers too far behind the blade to begin with. I never touch the wood at the rear of the blade. I use homemade push blocks that not only push the wood, but press it against the table top, yet leave my hands clear. An old 2x4 can be fashioned fairly quickly into something usable if need be. I quickly discovered that the classic "push-stick" design included with the instruction manual with many saws was totally inadequate for holding the wood against the saw table. I noticed that reaction wood or pressing too far right of center would cause the blade to grab at the wood being cut.
I do use a splitter wherever I can, however. Even the homemade zero clearance inserts I use have a removable splitter pin carefully adjusted to prevent the wood from contacting the rear of the blade. I have several lengths which can be used. Not perfect, but works so far.
New saws, Leon. I don't think they are easily adapted because of the riving knife requirement. The fact that it is easily removed and replaced takes away the argument that it does not work well with jigs so you leave it off all the time. Although it still may not work with jigs. I've only seen a couple of photos in the magazine.
Evidently that complaint was noticed. The new requirement is that the guard comes off and is replaced easily so after that dado cut, no excuses when it takes seconds to replace it. I keep my guard in place, but when I do have to take it off, it does not go back or right away. With a snap fit it would.
Speaking of mangled digits, I was at a friend's house a few years back. He knew my love of woodworking and took me to the basement to show me his shop. Along the wall was a Sears RAS and I commented to him that while I had used mine frequently, that it always scared me for some reason. I told him that I'd learned to pull the truck out using my body and not my arm: I would lock my elbow and wrist, then use the weight of my body to pull the truck out and across the wood. I explained that this seemed to help prevent the blade from binding and "climbing" across a thinner piece.
He smiled and held up his left thumb, or what was left of it, to show me he understood the issue.
Hi, Ed. :) An example of market forces working, the entry into the market of saws like the Saw Stop, PM2000, etc. have forced companies like Delta to rethink their views of what will sell. I also noticed that after a brief stint in China, they are now hawking the new Delta Unisaw, "assembled" in Tennessee, with all the bells and whistles, safety wise, that I complained to Frank about two or three years ago. The blowback must have been considerable from the move overseas. I have no doubt the castings are made in China, but every little bit helps, eh? I've not seen it in person because most of the venders in this area stopped selling Delta after the B&D assimilation, but it looks sharp. A real moving riving knife, venier tilt, better blade guard. Unfortunately I can't afford but what I have...
The cheap import benchtop saws are still problematic, however, and much of what is used on construction sites.
Greg G.
Sounds like good sense to me.
I don't use zero clearance inserts, but like you, use the splitter whenever I can. My original TS which I still use for its absolute accuracy and wide range of options has a splitter and a guard that can be removed/replaced in seconds. My cheap 12' chinese ripsaw has a guard that comes off/ goes on in seconds. The splitter, which rises & falls and tilts with the blade, is also independently adjustable for height, which means when ripping beyond the 4" depth of cut of the blade and flipping over for a second cut to splt the piece in two, the splitter can remain in place, - just adjusted a fraction lower than the blade height.
To diverge a little, that saw has given me much pause for thought. Had I not already had a TS that did most of what I needed, I wouldn't have considered it. Too cheap. I did end up buying it on the basis that I really only needed it to split 7" x2" boards into 7 x 3/4 or 7 x 1/2. I was prepared for a fair amount of wastage and cleanup effort to achieve that , seeing as how it was so cheap. Had low expectations.
The reality is, that it is accurate. Dead accurate. Set it to 90deg on the dial, - that's what you get. set it to 45 deg, cut two mitres on adjoining faces and a square across the two faces shows no daylight showing anywhere. Even the imitation Biesmeyer fence sits perfectly parallel to the blade. Locks securely. Blade cuts beautifully, good enough faces to glue.It also came with two extension tables, plus a roller table and dust extraction ports top and bottom. The whole thing cost me AUD$650 with 3 years warranty.
So, am I trying for a gloat? No. I'm concerned. I live in what is arguably the most expensive nation on earth to purchase tools. Yet the Chinese produced this thing, it was shipped to Oz, went through a distributor and then a retailer (whose prices are generally 25% to 50% higher than you pay for exactly the same thing in the US/Canada) before it got to me. What concerns me, is what does that mean for the future of manufacturing and associated employment in the western world. How do we compete? We've always done that with quality. But if China emulates the Japanese and South Koreans in that regard, delivering quality, as they seem to be getting better at year by year, what then?
I don't much like the answer I come up with.
diggerop
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in news:AY6dnUC2BvenoZ3WnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:
I would definately use the guard if it would stay out of the way. The trouble I have with mine is it's so fiddly to adjust it can actually make things worse. The work piece starts to bind against the fence and guard requiring more force to push through the blade, and we all know that's a bad thing.
Plus, if I take it off for a non-through cut, there's no positive registration to get it back where it needs to be. The design is letting me down.
Puckdropper
" snipped-for-privacy@teranews.com" wrote in news:PyXLm.2626$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe01.iad:
He mentioned it during the Table Saw series. He basically said they took the guard off for TV clairity, but it was your choice whether to use the guard or not. (This is from my memory. For a direct word for word quote, contact LRod.)
Puckdropper
Absolutely and totally agree.
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