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Just trying to compare apples to apples. While you can expect a discounted price on HF I wanted to show what HF has on their web site. The Fein goes on sale also.
The Fein was not $400 the HF was not $60. You can only make an educated comparison with data at hand.
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wrote:

Certainly _neither_. Beemers are extremely overrated. I think of them as the Thompson's WaterSeal of Automobiles.

When Fein came out with them, they cost $400+. I hadn't checked the price since, so mea culpa. But with this month's sales, HF's is $29.95 and the Fein is still seven times more expensive, more if you have a 20% off coupon from HF, too.

I look for value. In most tools, ultimate performance isn't required. I'm still casually eyeing Makita's SP6000K when noone's looking. Why didn't Festool build in an anti-tilt lever for bevel cuts?
-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch
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wrote:

Anti-tilt lever?
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wrote:

From their flyer: http://fwd4.me/ige 1.8mb download
"Slide lever built into the saw base locks the saw to the guide rail to help support the saw while making bevel cuts."
-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch
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On 10/21/2010 9:52 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

From what I've read only:
The Makita needs it because it is prone to kickbacks as it does not have a riving knife; and I think the Makita might also cut a bit past 45 degrees (48?), which, both of these issues combined, would make it a necessity, IMO.
Neither Festool saw needs the "anti-tilt lever" for bevel cuts. I've done a few of these cuts in plywood and have no idea why one would be remotely necessary.
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Why on Earth would a circular saw on a RAIL need a riving knife for kickback protection? Especially when it's primarily used on panel products which, by nature, don't get the urge to close up like improperly dried hardwood lumber might.

I haven't yet used one (plugged in) so I can't tell you from experience. But if you're hanging the motor off the edge of the rail, I'd think you'd want both clamps for the rail and a catch on the saw to keep it more steady. <shrug>
-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch
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On 10/21/2010 1:17 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

In my estimation, and use of the saw, and because it's a PLUNGE saw, the Festool riving knife mitigates the tendency of the saw to kickback toward the operator upon a plunge cut away from the edges of a panel (a cut I use quite often now that I have the ability to do it easily).
It is upon the use of this very cut that the Makita's tendency to kickback is most notable according to its owners.

But I can ...

You would think .. but in actual practice, that thinking goes out the window and is inoperative.
A bit of practical, hands on experience with the Festool TS55 and TS75 would do wonders to remove those erroneous preconceptions. ;)
I have to admit that, as a new user, I was very reluctant to forego clamping the rail down prior to making the first few cuts.
After gaining some experience you learn to trust the system for what it was designed to do, and you find that you very rarely need to clamp the guide rails to the workpiece, even on beveled cuts.
It's a new way of working ... and thinking.
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Do you seriously feel that it does any good whatsoever, Swingy? I can't see how it could. Panel products don't have the internal stresses that badly dried woods do.

Well, yeah, that type of cut would give you the most feedback. But I've never had much (unless I slip) feedback with my old circ saw doing plunge cuts, rotating the saw off its butt into the panel. And that with HF blades! The shame...
Speaking of blades, have you Festering owners tried the Oslun brand of blades? http://fwd4.me/iqB $20.

OK. I guess the balance is better than I thought.

I got to handle them at the local home center's toolmonger day, but they didn't have any plugins, so I couldn't hear the DC or cut with the TS55.

Doesn't sawdust mess with the sticky strips on the guide?

So it would seem.
-- Know how to listen, and you will profit even from those who talk badly. -- Plutarch
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wrote:

Actually when cutting boards, not just sheet goods, it probably adds to prevent kick back.

The friction strips are not sticky, work very similar to the friction pads on the bottom of the Grippers push blocks, they don't slip snf don't attract dust either.
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Yabbut,...... it takes awhile to gain confidence in their stickiness. :-)
Max
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wrote:

How often do you rip boards with it? 1/2% of the time? 1/4%?

OK.
-- I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man. And this is what I want you to be, young, young all your life. -- Pablo Casals
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So far 50%
That is going to become a smaller number however as I have a bunch of panel projects coming up.
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wrote:

Amazing.
Ayup.
How about you other 55 and 75 owners? What's your ripping quotient?
-- An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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It's become my main saw (with tracks and an older MFT) for everything including ripping. I'm one of those people without a table saw though. I do a lot of plywood so my ripping solid timber is probably more like 10%. It'd be nice if festool was better at handling rips of long narrow pieces - their system really requires support pieces and the workpiece clamped to a surface. (in that application I think the eurekazone system has an edge with it's dual clamping tracks underneath.
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On Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:08:22 GMT, scatter

Thanks for the feedback.

I take it that you don't have the Festool MFT table?

I hadn't heard of Eurekazone until now. Festering prices there, too, eh? Do you own one of these as well?
-- Most people assume the fights are going to be the left versus the right, but it always is the reasonable versus the jerks. -- Jimmy Wales
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I do. It's an older mft800. It's great for cross cutting or for working on pieces already cut so that they'll fit on the table. Believe it or not, it's best feature for me are the precision placed holes. It's trivial to make 90 or 45 degree cuts. Guides and stop blocks are easy to clamp down.

Yeah, it's what I started with many years ago. The tracks and clamps are good but I was disappointed by the workmanship of many accessories. I use my 2 Ezone tracks for cutting stuff down to size or for long, very thin rips.
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wrote:

Well first off what makes you think it is only used on panel projects, I have used mine on regular wood also. The Festool saw is meant to cut anything you would normally cut with a circular saw, maybe the Makita is not.

At a steep bevel angle the saw will lift off of the sled, IF you let go. Under normal operating conditions it has no suprises.

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wrote:

I said "primarily", not "only", Leon.

The Makita is an improved clone. <gd&r> Why wouldn't it be used in the same manner as a green F unit?

OK. It had appeared to be a useful function...and may be to someone else.
-- I am an old man, but in many senses a very young man. And this is what I want you to be, young, young all your life. -- Pablo Casals
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It probably is a good idea, but not a necessary one.
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On 10/23/2010 11:44 PM, Leon wrote:

I'm of the opposite opinion ... Anti-tilt on the Makita is totally unnecessary when the saw is operated properly, and most dangerous when not.
The "anti-tilt" is a good idea ONLY on very short bevel cuts, ONLY if the guide rail is clamped to the work piece and the underlying cutting/table surface, ONLY if the saw is being improperly operated on the short cut, and, more to the point, ONLY because it has no riving knife.
In the middle of a _long_ bevel cut, and since guide rails are clamped only at the ends, no anti-tilt lever made will keep a long guide rail from flexing slightly and lifting off the work piece without proper handling by the operator.
This flexing of a long guide will guarantee kick back (yes C-less, even in sheet goods) and particularly so on a saw with no riving knife.
(simply holding either saw securely, and with a consistent down and forward motion it proper operation, and is all that is necessary with a saw equipped with a riving knife)
Any piece of equipment must be operated properly, and anything that gives the operator a false sense of security often ends up extremely dangerous.
You can bet that this is one of the reasons you rarely hear about a kickback problem with either Festool plunge saw.
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