More noise about climate

Page 7 of 8  
On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 22:33:55 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"

I liked it because it incensed _everyone_.

Good 'un.
-- We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us. -- Marcel Proust
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Larry Jaques wrote:

One I've never seen:
Whale Oil is a Renewable Resource Live Green
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Save the whales, collect the entire set.
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On Sun, 07 Feb 2010 22:35:04 -0700, the infamous Mark Hansen

Jesus Saves, Moses Invests!
-- We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us. -- Marcel Proust
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Han wrote:

I need some proof that a trace gas has that much effect.
The CO2 in the atmosphere (0.003%) is equivalent to the blood stain left on a football field after an official received 17 stab wounds when he made three consecutive bad calls against the home team (i.e., less than two square feet).
I suspect that if power plants exhaled Argon or Helium, proof would be constructed that these gases are sealing our doom.

And asphalt costs what? Ten times that of installing concrete?
I can see it now: In an effort to increase the earth's albido, concrete is mandated. States with thousands of miles of two-lane Farm-To-Market or rural roads, each hosting 50 vehicles per day, are to be resurfaced. Two-lane concrete roadways cost a bit over $1 million per mile to construct. (Asphalt is about $150,000 per mile and can be recycled.)
There are over 41,000 miles of Farm and Ranch roads in Texas.
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I think you inadvertently switched them. Bu I do get the drift.

Concrete can be recycled as well, and I doubt that the cost differential is as big as you say. And I note you have come down from a factor of 10 to a factor of less than 7.

I don't care about Texas (smile!!).
IMNSHO a lot can be done by altering our approach for future work just slightly. This example is for moderate climates with freeze-thaw cycles, like around New York. For instance, a road surface on a local village road with good cracks in it (not HUGE, but just good cracks) can be rather easily repaired well, using a little extra effort. Not just slapping some asphalt repair stuff on it, and patting that down with a shovel, but heating the old surface, patching it and sealing it with liquid tar (whatever). The road could easily last another 10 years or more then while the slapping patching stuff just lifts in a year or two. Yes the initial repair is more than twice as costly, but it lasts much more than 3 times as long. You get what you pay for!
Then when real resurfacing is needed, a decision could be made to hae a lighter colored top layer. Many factors go into these choices, but albedo could easily be included.
--
Best regards
Han
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Han wrote:

Albedo be damned, if using concrete results in roads that don't have to be rebuilt every ten years or so then I'm all for it. The Romans built roads through swamps that Moshe Dayan could drive tanks over 2000 years later, but we can't build roads in a desert that you can drive a Jeep over 50 years later (try to follow the original path of Route 66 if you disbelieve).

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J. Clarke wrote: ...

...
Caesar didn't have quite the same labor contract w/ the unions... :)
--
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scrawled the following:

If the bean counters got their way, that would be the standard everywhere. But they can't get that kind of funding package together -and- give all the payouts in the rest of the political infrastructure at the same time...and get away with it. If we could keep track of it (IE: keep it out of pols' hands) and get competitive bids for everything, it would actually cost taxpayers a lot less money in the long run. The question is: How do you stop the pols from spending every last cent in the kitty (and then some) every year?

That's a great idea. I really like the gold and ruddy roads in AZ and NV.
-- Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will. -- George Bernard Shaw
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Han wrote:

Psst! Concrete is seldom recycled.

You would if the federal government is to pay to replace all the asphalt roads with concrete. Some of the dump trucks used to haul sand and cement would have to be diverted to haul money from your state to mine.
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That's new to me. Shouldn't it be the aggregate in new concrete?

Highway funds should go to railroads in the Northeast <smile>.
I walk/bike a few minutes to the NJTransit railroad station ("Radburn"), then ride the trains at half fare (over 62) to either Hoboken or Manhattan. I like railroads ...
--
Best regards
Han
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Somebody wrote:

BULL SHIT.
If your eyes were not brown before, they are now.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Whatever. At least they're open.
From the U.S. Geological Survey:
"Aggregates produced from recycled concrete supply roughly 5 percent of the total aggregates market (more than 2 billion t per year), the rest being supplied by aggregates from natural sources such as crushed stone, sand, and gravel."
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0181-99/fs-0181-99so.pdf
See also http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/sand_&_gravel_construction/590400.pdf
Total aggregate usage: 1,120,000 (x 1,000) metric tons (Table 6) Total recycled asphalt and concrete: 7,210 (x 1,000) metric tons (Table 14)
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PULLEAS!!!! All that statistic says is that more aggregate is being used for concrete production than can be supplied by recycled concrete/asphalt. (only ~ 0.7% could be supplied by recycling). Seems to me at least. Don't confuse us with incorrect data/conclusions.
--
Best regards
Han
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Concrete would be extremely expensive in the north. It would have to be extensively repaired, if not replaced, each spring.
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We were through Winnipeg MB last summer and drove through the neighbourhood I lived in in the mid 1970s.
The concrete roads poured more than 30 years ago were in very good condition.
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CW wrote:

So what! It's for the children.
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Not if it were poured by competent people, I think.
--
Best regards
Han
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Small traces can have big effect. The tetanus toxin is fatal at doses at 2.5 nanograms per kilogram of body weight or 0.0000000000025%.
-- Doug
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Douglas Johnson wrote:

I agree. For the rest of the game, not a single flag was thrown.
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