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On 5/1/2013 10:35 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

i have found that it also prevents microfractures from healing back up, causing cleaner snapping on float glass. i don't use oil on other harder art glasses, but do on float, especially thicker (1/4"-1") sheets than window glass (which can be done without kerosine).
i just use a paintbrush to apply a kerosine line where the the score is to go, and cut on that line. the liquid seeps into the score, and seems to work better.
regards, charlie http://glassartists.org/ChaniArts
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On 5/1/2013 12:35 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Actually the oil is simply to lubricate the cutting wheel axle so that it does not wear out. I used to do a lot of stained glass and never had issue with glass chips when cutting glass. I did have a glass cutter with an oil reservoir that lubricated the axle ever so slightly with each cut.
Still wondering why use Kerosine over regular 3 in 1 oil and or mineral oil.
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On 5/1/13 12:35 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Oh, so oil. I was just wondering why Kerosine. I'm guessing of everyone with a shop, 10 would have some oil around and 1, some kerosine.
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On 5/1/2013 11:15 AM, chaniarts wrote:

I have cut a lot of stained glass in the past and have never heard of using kerosine. What do you use that for?
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On 5/1/2013 1:11 PM, Leon wrote:

Oops! You just answered my question. ;~) Now I know. I was thinking 1/8" thick cheap mirror similar in thickness to stained glass.
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On 5/1/2013 11:11 AM, Leon wrote:

it's easier to cleanup off the glass than thicker oils, and reservoir cutters have a cloth wick that can get gummed up by heavier oils if they sit for a while. once that happens, the wick can't be cleaned and you can't get it to start working.
also, i can get a multi-lifetime supply in a gallon of kerosine than small containers of oil.
for lubrication of the cutter wheels, put a cotton ball in an old film canister and add a dozen drops of 3-1 oil, then cap. when you go to cut, just run the wheel in the cotton ball to get a very little bit on it, then use. other than that, i don't cut art glass with any oil, just float with kerosine.
btw: if you're getting chips when using a glass scoring tool, you're pressing WAY too hard. it usually only needs 5-8 lbs of pressure to work correctly. you're scoring, not cutting, glass with the tool. some hard art glasses don't even make a sound and it's hard to find the score to snap.
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On Wednesday, May 1, 2013 1:24:27 PM UTC-5, chaniarts wrote:

ng WAY too hard. it usually only needs 5-8 lbs of pressure to work correctl y. you're scoring, not cutting, glass with the tool. some hard art glasses don't even make a sound and it's hard to find the score to snap.
Scoring too hard! Probably exactly why I've never had very many clean cuts /snaps of the glass I've tried cutting, despite most of my glass cutting ha ving been on older, used glass. I had always blamed the old glass. Thanks .
Sonny
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On 5/1/2013 3:56 PM, Sonny wrote:

WAY too hard. it usually only needs 5-8 lbs of pressure to work correctly. you're scoring, not cutting, glass with the tool. some hard art glasses don't even make a sound and it's hard to find the score to snap.

cuts/snaps of the glass I've tried cutting, despite most of my glass cutting having been on older, used glass. I had always blamed the old glass. Thanks.

Keep in mind your breaks will be better and easier if you snap the glass immediately after scoring.
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On 5/1/13 10:59 PM, Leon wrote:

How's that?
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I do not the exact reasoning other than how it was explained to me by my instructor some 30 tears ago. Glass is technically a liquid vs. a solid, it heals itself. I have never verified the next example of glass being in a liquid type state but it is said that the stained glass in old church windows is thicker at the bottom and thinner at the top.
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On Thursday, May 2, 2013 7:28:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:

instructor some 30 tears ago. Glass is technically a liquid vs. a solid, i t heals itself. I have never verified the next example of glass being in a liquid type state but it is said that the stained glass in old church windo ws is thicker at the bottom and thinner at the top.
Yep, at room temperature, glass is a super cooled liquid. Almost all glass 75yrs old and older will be visibly thicker on the bottom, with waves/wrin kles (flows unevenly) that will noticeably deflect light.
Additionally: Glass exposed to UV light for ~~75yrs starts to turn blue, has a blue shade to it, only noticeable with clear glass, i.e., an aspect to help in dating /aging glass, bottles, jars, etc.
I assume this info is fact, learned as a self taught amature bottle collect or, back in high school and a bit beyond.
I've always understood cutting older glass panes may not always cut/snap cl ean, because of its unevenness.
No telling what other mistakes I made, besides 1) scoring too hard, then 2) pausing before snapping, to inspect that the score mark was visible and, i f not, score it again. <---> What was that thread, "Pretend you know an idi ot"? Ibid.
Sonny
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On 5/2/2013 8:38 AM, Sonny wrote:> On Thursday, May 2, 2013 7:28:16 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote: >> > > I do not the exact reasoning other than how it was explained to me by my instructor some 30 tears ago. Glass is technically a liquid vs. a solid, it heals itself. I have never verified the next example of glass being in a liquid type state but it is said that the stained glass in old church windows is thicker at the bottom and thinner at the top. > > Yep, at room temperature, glass is a super cooled liquid. Almost all glass 75yrs old and older will be visibly thicker on the bottom, with waves/wrinkles (flows unevenly) that will noticeably deflect light. > > Additionally: > Glass exposed to UV light for ~~75yrs starts to turn blue, has a blue shade to it, only noticeable with clear glass, i.e., an aspect to help in dating/aging glass, bottles, jars, etc.
Ah yes! I had almost forgotten that the light will trun in color when exposed to the UV light. AAMOF my grand mother and aunts collected old looking clear glass bottles and placed them inside a wooden box lined with aluminum foil. They used a florescent UV lamp on the lid to constantly shine for several months. At the end of what seemed 3~4 months the glass would actually have a purplish cast.
A funny note, my grandmother in her 70's back in the 60's would watch the process with the lid partiality opened, no knowing that the process was going to take a long time. She ended up with a sunburn around her eyes. Not bad, just enough to appear really odd. LOL
> I assume this info is fact, learned as a self taught amature bottle collector, back in high school and a bit beyond.
A correct assumption although the artificial process yielded the slightly different color.
> > I've always understood cutting older glass panes may not always cut/snap clean, because of its unevenness. > > No telling what other mistakes I made, besides 1) scoring too hard, then 2) pausing before snapping, to inspect that the score mark was visible and, if not, score it again. <---> What was that thread, "Pretend you know an idiot"? Ibid. > > Sonny >
I mentioned immediately, What i should have indicated was don't score all of your glass and then break it. Breaking is the very next step in the process of cutting. Basically don't score the glass until you are ready to snap it. Also do not rescore, run the glass cutter in one continuous fluid motion. Only press hard enough to hear the cutter working.
And then cutting concave curves is another matter altogether. You do need to score the curved shape and then make several relief cuts to slowly remove material up to your desired curve. And grozing plyers are involved to literally break out chunks.
Much more fun cutting a convex curve.
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On 5/2/13 8:38 AM, Sonny wrote:

Old wives' tale. Explain how some old windows are thicker at the top, or one side, or both sides or top and bottom. It's not gravity. It's because of the way the glass was manufactured back them. They didn't have the technology to make a uniform thickness.
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On 5/2/2013 9:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

glass is an amorphous solid.
yes, it is thicker because they used to make it in cylinders, cool it, score it down the side, break it, then reheat it to flatten it. it was thicker at the bottom of the cylinder, and most glaziers put that at the bottom for weight.
if it flowed in 75 years, then glass from the egyptians that are 4000 years old would be a puddle by now.
it's also an old wives tale that one has to score and break immediately. there is some indications that the bottom of the scored fracture can heal somewhat, but not to any great deal.
and finally, we don't flatten glass now. float glass is called that because it's poured out on a bed of molten tin in a nitrogen/hydrogen atmosphere. art glass is still made the old way, poured on a steel table and flattened with rollers or by hand.
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On 5/2/2013 11:26 AM, -MIKE- wrote:

first off I am not talking about plain clear glass, I was only referencing "stained glass"
If you have looked that up to determine an old wives tale I can't doubt you. But the church stained glass that I was talking about, while is not perfect uniform thickness, the glass in stained glass windows is not cut in a uniform way like you would cut wood. Stained glass is cut at any particular angle. Two identical pieces of glass may have been cut at 90 degrees from each other. Because stained glass is not uniform in texture and or internal coloring you hunt out the spot in the glass and cut it out.
With that in mind the stained glass would not all be wider on the bottom.
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On 5/2/13 5:18 PM, Leon wrote:

All I'm saying is that I have never been able to find any credible evidence (before or after google) to support that glass is effected by gravity nor that it can "heal itself" from being scored.
I'm calling BS on those things.
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-MIKE- wrote:

says they put lighter wood carving above glass. An extension of that idea would be to to use lighter glass at the top. But then it would be weaker there, so maybe not.
The notion that glass is not affected by gravity must be careless choice of words.
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On 5/2/13 8:45 PM, Bill wrote:

Not in the context of this discussion. In this discussion, it was brought up, the myth that glass is never "fully hardened" and can flow downward in a window pane over time, making the bottom of the window thicker than the top. *That* is the effect of gravity that is relevant to this discussion.
This fallacy has been discredited as an "old wives' tale," but is nonetheless still purported all over the internet and even of professional glass worker sites.
I think it's clear to anyone that if you drop a piece of glass, gravity will sure have a dire effect on it. :-)
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-MIKE- wrote:

Okay, I did not buy into that part of the discussion.

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It's always good to know the ture facts, rather than the false facts. : )
Thanks, to all, for the correct info.
Sonny
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