Lie-Nielson chisels

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On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 01:25:52 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett

how pleasant it is to go into my local Woodcraft store. It's well stocked, there are knowledgeable sales staff to help you and they do not seem bitter about working there. Moreover, I can sit down and browse through a large collection of woodworking books, drink a cup of coffee on them, and unlike the big box stores I usually find what I went there for. It is now franchised and the new owner seems to be doing well. As a matter of fact he has opened another store on the other side of town. The stock has expanded since Woodcraft franchised it out. There is a large section of the store devoted to a woodworking club where one can stroll around and see what people are making. I wish the new owner well. He is keeping some money in the community instead of it going off to wherever Amazon is located. If there is a problem I can return the item and understand the person I am dealing with instead of spending hours on the phone with someone in India. I can carefully examine what I am buying and not worry about a two week delay if it arrives by UPS in a box and turns out to be the wrong item or defective. I might pay a little more for all this but it is well worth it to me. Of course, since most of the Woodcraft stores are now franchises I supposed the local operator has a lot to do with the quality of one's experience there. I usually leave my Woodcraft store happy. I usually leave Home Depot or Lowes with an absolute loathing for the whole operation.
Joe
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Don't get me wrong - I LOVED the Woodcraft store. I probably spent about $1000 a year there - as a hobbyist. I spend much less than $100 a year at HD and Lowes for tools/woodworking. There's a big empty hole in my heart when I drive past the empty Woodcraft store.
I'm just saying that Woodcraft says "sale" - don't assume it is.
TANSTAAPS - There aint no such thing as a perfect store.
It's well

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Joe Bleau wrote:

You're comparing apples to oranges.
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"B A R R Y" wrote in message

And rotten apples at that.
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wrote:

Quite to the contrary. I am comparing shit to strawberries.
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Joe Bleau wrote:

Not if you need a roll of roofing felt, (2) melamine shelves, some PVC conduit, two sheets of blue foam insul-board, a downspout, contact cement, some 15 ga. PC finish nails, and a Tony Stewart or Jimmie Johnson water jug in the same trip. <G>
The BORGs do have some value when kept in perspective.
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Define "pay a little more". That seems to be the key issue with all of the mail order/internet/big warehouse/out of town versus local shop discussions on the internet. It applies to all recreational pursuits. Woodworking and bicycling for me. Cameras for others.
If the local shop is charging 5% more on a $100 sale, no big deal to me. If its 10% more on a $1000 sale, it means more to me. 10% more plus 6% sales tax on a $2000 Unisaw, it means a lot to me. Compared to $1800 and free shipping from Amazon. How much service work is needed on a cabinet saw that has been made the same for about 70 years now? Is it worth paying $320 up front for an extended warranty basically? I don't buy extended warranties on electronics and such when offered. Why pay it for a Unisaw at my local Woodcraft? I've dealt with Amazon on purchases and they went fine.
And 5% or 10% markup is maybe on the low end of the difference in price between mail order/internet and local shops. If its 20% or 30% or 40% more plus 6% sales tax from the local shop, will you still buy locally? What if its a product where no service is needed such as drill bits or router bits or chisels or saw blades? Are you paying the extra just because the local shop is a nice guy or maybe in the future you will need his service for something that cannot be worked out fine with a non local vendor or if you need something NOW and cannot wait 2-3 days?
I've bought tools from local stores, mail order, internet in the US, Canada, England, and Australia. The foreign purchases were at a considerable savings from any of the US mail order places. Why mail order from a US mail order if you can save 40% from a foreign mail order place? I have local shops in verious recreational pursuits that are run by very nice people and involved in the community, etc. But I still have a hard time paying full MSRP and sales tax for a product they have to order in because they do not stock that brand/model, when I can get the same item delivered to my door via internet for 30% or more less including the shipping charges.
Of course, since most of the Woodcraft

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

be an incredible conceit for me to say that my decision in such a situation is "right" for anyone else.
FWIW, I am lucky to live near Highland Woodworking. And I shamelessly pick their brains as I get stumped on projects, with answers that often involve tools I already have, or something from another supplier. When I bought a jointer, I looked at how much more I would pay from them versus Amazon and decided to buy from HW--not for any sense of consumer protection on that purchase, but rather as a "gratuity" for the help I had received for free.
YMMV
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alexy wrote:

A drive-by...
You suck! <G>
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Yup. It had classes on Sunday.
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The Woodcraft in West Des Moines, Iowa went out of business 2-3 years ago. It was in operation for 2-3 years if I recall correctly. Metro area is about 400,000. Started/owned by two former Woodsmith Store employees. Des Moines is the home of the Woodsmith Store. Woodsmith Store is owned by August Home Publishing. August Home produces Shop Notes magazine, Woodsmith magazine, Workbench, a couple gareding magazines, and maybe some other stuff too. Woodsmith Store has been in operation for 20 years I think. New location a couple years ago. Big, big new store. Old store was sort of in the heart of town and not as easy to get to. Still had lots of space for lots of tools and such. Also in town are three different contractor tool stores. All carry the full range of Delta, Jet, Powermatic, etc. tools on the floor. And every power tool imaginable and then some. They do not carry the specialty woodworkign tools or turning tools that Woodcraft and Woodsmith Store carry. Also have three Menards, four Home Depot, and one Lowes in town. Woodcraft was in a strip mall in a good location. Not huge but enough space. They had more or less the full range of everything in the catalog. Including all of the small expensive non moving carving tools and turning tools quoted above. Offered hands on classes, which I took a couple of. There was just too much competition for them to survive. And the inventory costs as mentioned. And the fact the local woodworkers were already committed to the Woodsmith Store and bought their specialty woodworking items there. Internet for most power tools hurt Woodcraft store. Amazon, etc. Contractors buying power tools today went to the very well established Kel Welco, Puckett Tools, Bob's Tools. Which as mentioned carried far more hand held power tools than any woodworking store every did. And the same stationary power tools, or even more such as the big, big bandsaws. Quincy and Rol-Air compressors. And dozens of other compressors besides just Porter Cable red and DeWalt yellow. And dozens and dozens of air nailers. I suspect the owners were fed up with the way things were done at the Woodsmith Store where they worked and thought they could steal business away and do things their way. Their was not enough business to steal away from Woodsmith, or they could not steal much away. And could not steal any business from all of the other established places contractors shop. And the people who buy at Menards, Home Depot, Lowes go to the internet, not Woodcraft. And the high cost of inventory and employees and rental space in a decently placed strip mall. I don't know what business plan the owners had but anyone with an elementary education knew beforehand it was not going to work. The decision to open the Woodcraft was not based on anything financial, it had to have been all emotion. I enjoyed the store while it lasted. Don't get to Woodsmith Store much even though its very close to me and I go by it about every single day.
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There's a Woodcraft store in the San Francisco east bay area, where I do some business on occasion. A Unisaw, a drill press, a dovetail jig, clamps, etc. At one time, it was a franchise, run by a fellow I know now, but did not know then. The headquarters was running it for a while, and now there are new franchise owners back in the saddle. They're pretty good about staying in contact with the woodworkers' clubs, running specials and classes and activities, but it's not at all easy to run these as profitable businesses. The first fellow is pretty happy now, too, I think. He's active in the turning community, and happier than if he were running retail seven days a week.
After spending as much as I have, on a hobby, you do tend to back away a little bit, if only to let the checkbook heal, or to find more room to put the tools when they're not in use. I can't tell if the overall market is down, but you DO have to find new customers every month.
By the way, I like my LN chisels, short handled from the factory. I might make a longer handle or three to see whether the changes are happy ones for me.
Patriarch
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SNIP> Probably not what you want to hear, but socket chisels aren't really

The LN chisels are not required to make dovetails, but they are a real joy to own and to use.
As far as a long reach paring chisel needed to make dove tails, I don't understand. I only use a bit of the end of the chisel and at most use about 3/4". IMO, the handle length is a matter of personal preference.
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wrote. I like long reach on the _chisels_ for paring. Handle length ought to fit your hand.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

If you're going to use them for chopping waste out of the socket you might want to go with butt chisels - short stubby beveled sides chisels. Your going to have your left hand holding and positioning the chisel down at the wood and right hand swinging the mallet. A long handled, top heavy chisel will be harder to control when you're holding it at the other end with a two fingers and thumb grip.
charlie b
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