Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense?

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On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 03:53:19 GMT, "Dan White"

yabut.... that same president of ours tried to assasinate him. they both failed, and I pretty much figured that score was even.
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He did? In any case, that's a pretty silly argument. Remember the original point of the thread.
dwhite
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Yup, that's the one. If you bluff, be prepared for us to take you seriously. The end.
By the way, CM, when you top-post, people have to fix that to follow up to you with context. Please dont' do that.
Dave Hinz
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Try to get the name right. When you bottom post, it forces people to wade through everything they have already read. Sorry for those that have 3 minute memories but most of us don't have that problem.

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I have this magical development on my keyboard called the "Page Down" key. It allows me to almost instantly get to the bottom of a post to see the follow-up. If Usenet posts weren't archived, top-posting would be fine. However, when reading a series of archived posts, I find it hard to read top-posted replies because I was taught in school to read from top to bottom.
todd
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If people posted they way they should, you wouldn't have to do this.

98% of all posts are read in the orrriginal posting. The other 2% will just have to deal with it.

This brings up questions as to your reading ability.
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.pointer the for Thanks .read to easier way is This .mean you what see I , Wow .differently taught were people some guess I but, bottom to top from read to taught was I , Personally .read to like you how is this guess I
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You really do have a problem, don't you? I would suggest professional help. It might not be to late.
news:1qmdnXSt1sM_PtbcRVn-> .pointer the for Thanks .read to easier way isThis

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Does that make you feel better, CW?
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That you have a problem? I couldn't care less.

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It's obvious how much you don't care, now that you've posted about it three times, fool.

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On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:53:39 -0700, CW <> wrote:

Let me put this more simply. People come here to communicate. Your choice of top-posting impedes that. That's a good way to get put into the "killfile" and outright ignored. It's one thing to be ignorant, but you're showing that ignorance isn't the problem here.
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On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:23:47 -0700, CW <> wrote:

So learn to freaking _trim_ unneeded text. You don't talk backwards, why would you write that way?

So you're not only inconsiderate, but you're insulting. Lovely. Are you like this in person, or just when hiding behind a fake name on the Intarweb?
I notice you don't address my actual points. Does that mean you're done?
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

There are worse things a major power could do !
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Yup. Give notice; "Shape up or we'll take you out". They bluster and ignore. We go in, take 'em out, and get out, giving notice "Behave or we'll come back and take out the next one."
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I fixed your sentence for you. I mean, really!, when discussing _questionable_ military service, ole shrub is leaps and bounds ahead of poor ole kerry. and more keeps coming outta the woodwork (hey! got in a OWWR).
in fact, on a related note to impeachable, isn't not following a direct order during a time of war, treason (the ole skipped physical was actually an ole ordered-to-report-to physical)?
Renata
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:48:31 GMT, "NoOne N Particular"

-snip
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Man, I can't wait for this election. When Kerry loses, the left in this country is going to have their heads spinning right off their bodies! But nice way to try to confuse the issue. I'm not a military man, but I don't believe that not following a direct order, if that's what actually happened, would be considered treason. Perhaps insubordination. In fact, there are times when you should not follow a direct order. Say, for instance, that your superiors order you to establish a free-fire zone in an area with civilians. That is contrary to the Geneva convention and you have the duty to refuse the follow an illegal order. "I was just following orders" doesn't quite cut it.
todd
wrote:

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Two cents worth from a lurker:
The whole Swift Boat/National Guard stuff is a distraction. There are far more important issues than things that happened thirty years ago. The question really should be "what kind of America do you want to have"?
Do we want a president who thinks its okay to lock up people, including American citizens, simply on his say-so? No charges placed, no access to council or even to family members, no trial, and no release date other than "when the war against terror" is over? Whatever happened to the US Constitution? It could be that the people locked up (Jose Padilla for one) are guilty of horrible crimes. If so its up to the government to prove that in a court of law. This is supposed to be a government of laws, not of men.
Then there are the violations of the Geneva Conventions. These acts strongly concern me as a veteran. Holding people as "ghost prisoners" (i.e. without notice to anyone including the Red Cross) and the torture of the prisoners at Abu Graib and so on violate the provisions of those conventions which establish minimum standards for the treatment of prisoners of war. That creates a moral precedent that other nations _will_ use against captured Americans. Responsibility for Abu Graib starts at the top.
It could be argued that the Abu Graib torture does not violate the conventions based on some legalistic interpretation of the documents. But to the rest of the world this carries as much weight as Clinton's "meaning of is is" did to his opponents. Remember: people act not on what is true but on what they perceive to be true. The US being "bad guys" at that prison predictably has to be the inspiration for the young and hot blooded to strike out against us. Rather than make us safer Bush has made us less safe.
Another issue: Bush's spending. Doesn't anybody's memory extend to ten years back? One of the primary items in the Republicans 1994 "Contract for America" was fiscal responsibility. Among other provisions that list of proposed legislation included a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget. Instead being fiscally responsibility Bush has been throwing money into Iraq by the bushel full. From a surplus in the budget to the current enormous deficit in just three years. What's wrong with this picture? Whatever happened to paying as you go? The Republicans _were_ the party of fiscal responsibility not that of profligate spending.
Much could be written about Bush's economic policies. Most of it bad. I know that the US has lost over a million good paying jobs. The few jobs created under Bush's economic policies mostly pay less. I am out of work and have been for some time. If I am lucky I will get a job that pays half of what I was making before. If lucky I might get paid as much in 2004 as I did in 1985.
Kerry may well NOT be the best person for the job. But Bush is the worst thing to happen to DC since the British burned it in the War of 1812. Kerry could hardly worse.
Patricia Malone
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Then why does Kerry seem to want to talk about nothing else? Even Clinton has told him to shut up about it, a suggestion Kerry has apparently ignored. Now we have someone on the left cooking up phoney documents to try to discredit the president. They just can't stop shooting themselves in the foot.

Just so we're clear, here...which people are we talking about, other than Abdullah al Muhajir?

Well, Kerry is an admitted war criminal who concedes he has violated the Geneva Convention. So, I guess you're voting for Nader? And by the way, other nations were already treating POWs like this before Abu Ghraib. The only difference is that they don't punish the people responsible.

Man, it's too bad Abu Ghraib happened, because otherwise the middle east would just be a happy place like Disneyworld and no one would be mad at us.

I'm sorry. I must have missed the change in the Constitution that says the President gets to spend whatever he wants. The last I checked, spending bills had to go through Congress. So, if the Democrats in Congress didn't want things to go through, they could have stopped it. So, there's plenty of blame to go around. Why did the budget go from a annual surplus to a deficit? Are you kidding me? Does anything that happened three years ago today ring a bell? The surplus in 2000 of $236 billion was basically due to above-average receipts from higher-income taxpayers from capital gains from the stock market bubble, stock options, and bonus income, which added up to $300 billion. Since government budget people seem incapable of considering anything except the best-case scenario, they just assume those receipts would go on and on. In actuality, they were just another symptom of the stock market bubble that was bound to come down. Unfortunately, I haven't seen where Kerry plans to reign in that spending...in fact, he has promised trillions more.

Try again...see http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID 8. I'm sure there are lots of people not making the money they made during the phoney-baloney tech bubble.

Well, we won't get the chance to find out, unless he chooses to run again in 2008. Don't worry, though...the Clintons won't let him win that election either.
todd

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Kerry sure has made no mistake in pointing that out.

Probably better than Texas Democrats forging documents to try to gin up some dirt.

I'm not crazy about people being detained indefinitely. However, every one of those people has a warrant signed by a federal judge. The practice was upheld by the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in November of last year. But I'd like to see some greater speed applied to their situations.

And as we've seen with federal judge appointments, you can't just ramrod through anything you want to in the Senate if you have a majority. Unfortunately, you can't get much of anything done in the Senate on your own with less than 60 senators on your side. So, if anything gets done it's because Republicans and Democrats both wanted to.

Well, this one's a layup. From John Kerry's interview with Crosby Noyes on Meet the Press on April 18, 1971.
MR. CROSBY NOYES (Washington Evening Star): Mr. Kerry, you said at one time or another that you think our policies in Vietnam are tantamount to genocide and that the responsibility lies at all chains of command over there. Do you consider that you personally as a Naval officer committed atrocities in Vietnam or crimes punishable by law in this country?
SEN. KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.
Doesn't get any clearer than that.

This point of view is not supported by the facts and has been hotly disputed. Most Nader voters are not Democrats and some of the polling data I found showed that they would have split their vote between Bush and Gore. It shouldn't have mattered anyway. Gore should have done to Bush what Bush 41 did to Dukakis. Unfortunately, no one could find a pulse on Al for most of the campaign. The main purpose to blame for Gore's defeat is Al Gore. For God's sake...the man lost his own state. Unfortunately for Kerry, it looks like we're going to have a repeat in 2004, except the end result is going to be closer to Bush/Dukakis than Bush/Gore.

So, what you're saying is that the Democrats chose political expediency over their principles?

Where does that rank compared to Kerry voting against funding for the troops?

Yeah, it's too bad we have double-digit inflation and unemployment. Oops, I forgot...we don't. If you question if it could be done worse, please refer yourself to Jimmy Carter.

9/11 happened.

Actually, based on the events that happened in 2001 and Bush inheriting an economy on the downturn, I think we're doing quite well, thank you. What we definitely don't need is the most liberal member of the Senate running the show.

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