That's the simplest, but I believe that most people would define "productive" in this case as buying "for as little as you can." Everyone loves the capitalist system, `xcept when they're negatively affected.
In other words, for you, personal gain is more than "doing the right thing". That explains your political bent, as well, but you'll pretend not to understand why I'm saying that.
Dave,
Will you refer me to the software package or whatever that allows such a bid to be placed. All I've seen merely permit the "sniper" to specify a maximum, fixed amount.
I would never use one that works as you describe. It would be far too dangerous for me to even consider using.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
I would assume that is EVERY bidder's goal. It is certainly my goal in any auction whether my bid is placed 5 seconds after the bidding opens or 5 seconds before the bidding closes.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
That isn't logical, as it would have no difference compared to using proxy bidding. It's all about timing, and unfair advantage, isn't it.
Yes, and in a fair and equitable system, both bidders will have an equal chance to do so. By chosing to snipe, you are depriving the other bidder of that chance.
Just out of curiosity, Dave, what do you believe is the latest acceptable time to place a bid? 10 minutes before the bidding closes? 5 minutes? 1 minute?
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
You're intentionally missing the point, Tom, and you know it. Nice try though.
That is exactly how sniping works. It just submits your maximum bid at the last minute. There is no difference between it and proxy bidding except that your presence in the auction is not advertised. This reduces the bid fever, but does not change anything else about the auction. I don't know why you think it is such an evil thing. There is no unfair advantage.
-J
In other words, it bypasses the proxy bidding system, yes.
...(cue justification)
There it is. Yeah, doesn't change anything else about it except that you are working on more information than the other participants are given.
So, to paraphrase, "There is no unfair advantage, I'm just jumping in line right at the end without giving you a chance to bid". Gotcha. Well, as long as you can justify it to yourself, that's all that matters, isn't it now.
I'll repeat - I would pay a premium to list items with the 15-minute option, and prefer to buy on auction sites that have that feature.
Dave Hinz
You got it! It may not be logical, but that is exactly the way "sniper" software works. There is not one iota of difference between "sniping" and regular proxy bidding except in the timing of the bid placement. For an example, check out the "Bidnapper" software at
The contention of "50 cents more than the other guy" is not workable in the eBay environment. If my bid is $25.00, and your "snipe" is for 50 cents more than my bid, eBay will reject your bid because it is not at least one bid increment more than the current bid.
I'm not sure what the break points are, but at low bids, the increment is $0.50. As the current bid amount increases, the minimum acceptable increment also increases. Therefore, any bid of "$X.XX more than the other guy" would fail to be honored by eBay as soon as the current bid reaches the point at which the minimum increment exceeds $X.XX.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
here it comes...
EXACTLY my point, thank you Captain Obvious.
(sigh). Yes, for lower priced things with a 50-cent bid increment, that applies. For higher priced things with a higher bid increment that also applies. I didn't think I needed to specify the entire bid increment to pricing scheme.
The "jump in at the last moment before the other guy has a chance to counterbid" is the whole point of using sniping software, and anyone claiming otherwise is deluding themselves.
Dave's problem is that he's not comfortable with the system so he wants it to operate by his rules.
Actually, Gregp, no, I'd prefer that people operate by the system that is in place, rather than circumventing it.
You're probably one of those people who, when you see "left lane closed ahead", waits to the very last moment before going over, aren't you.
I may be missing the point, but if so, I assure you that it is not intentional.
I believe the basis of our misalignment is our differing beliefs relative to the nature of "sniped" bids. You seem to hold that there is some difference between a "snipe" and a normal proxy bid placed in the closing seconds of an auction. My contention is that there is absolutely no difference between the two.
If, just for the sake of argument, you temporarily accept my contention of there being no difference, perhaps you will understand the reason for my asking about the latest time a bid could be ethically placed.
On the other hand, if your contention is true - that a "snipe" bid is of the form "xx cents more than the other guy" - then I whole-heartedly agree with most of what you've said in this thread. In that scenario, I would hold "sniping" to be unethical at best.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
The usual neo crap: "Think my way or you're immoral." It really comes down to the fact that you're lazy.
If there is "absolutely no difference between the two", then sniping software does not exist and will not be used. It does exist, and is used. QED.
Given that there is a difference between proxy bidding and sniping, I would contend that this is a null question.
Yawn. Tell me again how refusing to circumvent the bidding system put in place by the bidding service is being "lazy"?
Actually, never mind. It seems that you and I have exactly _zero_ common ground. You probably stain cherry.
No it doesn't. It submits a proxy bid in the last few minutes/seconds of the auction. How does this bypass the proxy bidding system?
No you are not. You know nothing about the other persons max bid or whether someone else is going to submit a bid. You know exactly as much as everyone else.
You always have a chance to bid. What makes you think you don't have a chance to bid? You can bid your max bid at the very beginning of the auction and if it is the high bid it wins. Simple as that. High bid always wins. In fact, the first high bid wins in the case of a tie, so theoretically, an earlier proxy bid has an advantage.
I think you fail to understand how proxy bidding works and how sniping works.
-Jack
Hypothetical: 2 or more people are using Bidnapper to bid on an item. Who wins? The software purports to win the bidding for the user. But with multiple users, who is guaranteed success?
David
Tom Veatch wrote:
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