I was there and saw and heard it

[Hoyt Weathers]

I decided not to post as OT.

Background: I was an Aviation Cadet at Lackland AFB in San Antonio, Texas in early January and February of 1953. I was in the barracks bay of a very special Airman. He had been in the Korean Conflict and had earned a Medal of Honor for his actions as a gunner aboard a 2-engined boomer in Korea. I was in the same barracks as he was. All there knew of his medal and fully respected him for for his bravery in combat.

One day, a very uptight and very starched, 2nd Lt.. was walking towards us on the way to chow. We were 2nd classmen by then. I was just behind the airman in question.

As per the orders, I saluted the officer and held my salute.

The airman ahead of me did not solute the officer. I held my solute.

The officer called Halt. We both stopped. The officer ask, very forcefully, why the airman did not salute him. The Airman ahead of me slowly raised his left arm and hand and pointed across to his chest to his Medal of Honor medal.

The officer came to a very full brach and held it.

After a minute or so, the airman returned his salute.

I held my salute until the officer replied.

I never knew of the history of that officer or that Airman.

On this Memorial Day, I salute that airman.

He is a hero to me.

Hoyt W.

[Bruce]

Strangely enough, there are no airmen that won a Medal Of Honor in the Korean conflict. There were 4 given to Air Force officers. This sounds like an urban legend to me.

he would still be required to salute the Lt.

"Even with it?s widespread recognition, there are still a number of erroneous beliefs about the medal and its recipients.

?There?s nothing in the Navy regulations that makes any mention of the Medal of Honor except for its order of precedence on the uniform,? said Hudner.

The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate a salute to a Medal of Honor recipient, regardless of rank. Hudner said another myth is that medal recipients are prevented from returning to combat."

[Bay Area Dave]

that second Louie wasn't as much of an AH as the idiot that stopped me outside the PX at Luke AFB one hot afternoon to read me the riot act for not saluting his highness.

I might add that BOTH my arms were full of packages that I had just purchased...sigh.

dave

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

[The Davenports]

The most common myth is that military personnel are required to initiate a

Very true...the lower rank is required to salute first...

...However, I HAVE seen some fairly high ranking officers, upon realizing that they were in the presence of a CMH "winner", working very fast indeed, to be able to salute first. The medal, if not the man.

As to the second point, the exact thing that brings a man to do something that is "worth" a CMH is much the same thing that makes him go back...if he can, that is. I hope someone can check me on this, but 20-some years ago when I was in the USN, I heard from someone I trusted, but can't vouch for, that over 65% of CMH medals were posthumously awarded.

Accurate? No? Help me out here, Gang.

Mike

[Gary]

According to webpage

"Of the 204 Medals of Honor awarded during the V'nam War, 149, or 73% were awarded posthumously."

Not certain how credable it is though.

[Hoyt Weathers]

You are dead-assed wrong. I was there and saw it happen. You did not. I stand by my word. Pull your head out. Hoyt W.

[Jack]

I heard from someone I trusted, but can't vouch for,

Good page with the awardees of the CMH, includes statistics for the posthumous award

Chief Jack

[Bay Area Dave]

You must have been smoking some pretty good stuff, Hoyt; there were 3 majors and a captain in the AF that received the Medal of Honor during the Korean Conflict. No enlisted personnel in the AF are listed. Nice try. got any more war stories for us? Any that are true??

dave

Hoyt Weathers wrote:

word.

[Bruce]

Pull my head out? I gave the US GOVERNMENT websites that prove your wrong about the medal winner. I can't prove the Lt didn't salute the phantom medal winner but if he did, I proved he was wrong too.

[raj656]

[Charlie Self]

The Davenports ask:

I couldn't find it. The CMH was first awarded during the Civil War, with over

1500 citations--the only award for valor. 25 of those awards were posthumous. There were only 238 CMH awards during the entire Vietnam Award, long after it became the nation's leading honor for valor. A more accurate comparision might be between posthumous WWII awards and Civil War awards, but I didn't find one.

Did you know there were 19 double Congressional Award winners? That is truly astonishing.

Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

I looked at the website and came up with the following USAF winners during the Korean War:

Maj. George Davis Maj. Charles Loring Maj.Louis Sebille Capt. John Walmsley

None of these brave men lived to return anyone's salute.

There are plenty of enlisted and noncomissioned personnel listed on the site; but none of them were Air Force. Most of them were Army and Marine Corps....

My other thought: that possibly this was an Army Air Corps member was shot down (pardon the pun) by finding the USAF was officially formed on July 26, 1947. There was no Army Air Corps by the time the hostilities in Korea began (June 25,

1950).

Another possibility is that the airman won his CMH in WWII rather than Korea. Or it's urban legend, as already suggested.

[Charlie Self]

Hoy Weathers responds:

Quite probably it was an Army or Navy CMH. There were no awards of Air Force CMHs until Vietnam...I think it didn't exist as a separate entity until then, but I don't know for sure. Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Charlie Self]

Bruce responds:

According to

there were 4 Air Force CMH awards during the Korean War.

Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

I vividly remember walking out of the hospital at Andrews Air Force base with my father (a Major at the time) during the height of the Vietnam War. As we walked past an airman who didn't salute or even acknowledge our existence, I asked my dad, "Wasn't he supposed to salute?". "Yes, but he probably had something more important on his mind and didn't notice me", my father said. "Look where we are."

As I think back on that, I realize what a thoughtful person my old man was/is. And no, I'd say he wasn't insecure.

[xrongor]

and all of them were awarded posthumously according to your site..

randy

[JG]

According to _my_ copy of the B.M.R. (NAVEDTRA 14325) Chapter Nine, Page

9 Saluting a superior is not required:

"When carrying articles with both hands, or otherwise occupied making saluting impracticable"

-- ITSN Gunterman NAVSUPACT MID-SOUTH

[Doug Miller]

But all to officers (none to airmen), and all posthumously.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter, send email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

[Charlie Self]

Yabbut there were a number of cross-service awards then and earlier. Navy and Army records show sort of a cross-reporting, and, in fact, of the 19 double winners, 4 were actually duoble reports by different services.

In other words, it is at least a possibility. I'm not about to jump on someone over that kind of thing.

Charlie Self "The test and the use of man's education is that he finds pleasure in the exercise of his mind." Jacques Barzun

[Upscale]

Even more important, why is an argument being created out of this? Whether true or not, this myth or truth whichever it is, should be taken as an honourable reflection of what the CHB means. Hell, even I can see that and I'm not American.