Ever hear of Enron, Worldcom, etc. NO CEO is worth what these jokers get.
I agree. However, they were criminals and not the average CEO.
Top management jobs are far less secure than union jobs. They get fired all the time. That's why they get these hige severance clauses -- they know their job may be short lived.
Your whole last section needs some serious rethinking on your part.
You have provoked me into violating a principle of never going off-topic in the woodworking group. My sincere apologies to those of you coming here for woodworking only to find these OT posts.
You need to find another place to work, perhaps. I won't work in a union shop because they place more value on senority than productivity and stifle innovation by preventing cross-training (this may depend on the union, but it's true for a lot of them). The bad employees get to stick around, and the good ones don't get paid a nickel extra in most cases. The place I work has got it's problems- and some of them could be addressed by a union that is not corrupt, but I am one of the highest paid employees on the shop floor even though I've been there less than a year. I do more work than my peers, and my employer has the ability to give raises to me based on merit because there is no union to say no.
The problems get larger with the companies. I've worked for large corporations, and I've worked with small shops. When you've got a top-down corporate style of management in a gigantic company, then things work exactly as stated above- but in a smaller company there is often more of a collegial approach that allows the workers who are actually doing the job to rethink and accordingly modify their processes, rather than wasting their time searching for some mythical overloard in a Kafka-esque bureaucracy. There are still guys that won't stick their necks out to improve the system in those enviroments, but at least the opportunity is there.
The workplace works the same as the marketplace- if you don't like what's going on, vote with your feet. Find a place that allows you to fulfill your personal function- that is to say, not just to "shut up and do your job" but to actively work to improve your productivity and skill. You're right- innovation *is* helping your employer stay in business another day. It is also making local manfacturing a more attractive option for everyone by allowing your employer to pay you more, while maintaining a competative price-point. If you're in an environment where that is not understood, then it's likely that you are in the wrong environment altogether. There is no virtue in making a martyr of one's self by "sticking it out" with a place which does not have the ability to change for the better.
Many times, management can be convinced of the value of innovation by making the numbers work for them. They have bosses just like you, and they have to answer for the actions they take in the workplace. Your manager may pass over a very good idea because you failed to make a compelling case for it. Numbers help- graphs are often even better. When you can break down the amount of money saved by performing an activity in a different manner, it not only lends you credibility, but it gives them something to take to their superiors. Everybody wins when you lay it out properly.
Bad employees get the bum's rush. Forget getting management to fire them- they don't want to pay the unemployment. It's not that hard to talk the guys who *are* doing their work into making the workplace a very hostile place for those who are not. Better to convince them to quit on their own than trying to get your HR dept. to build a case against them. I know where I'm at, the useless guys are always claiming fake injuries, so we like to make them special "safety" posters. A guy can't take being lampooned for too long before he heads for greener pastures.
Anyhow, sorry about the long rant, but this is one of those things that is rather near and dear to me. I worry that if things continue the way they are in most places, the US will be a third-world country by the end of my lifetime. Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
So you're advocating a group presence to force out an employee who some may see as being a bad employee? And what about the very real possibility of the process being subverted by people or persons who have a grudge against a fellow employee? What about the possibility of prejudice (which we all have to varying degrees) as the motivation to enjoin the group to 'talk' someone into leaving? What you're saying is that office politics (and that's exactly what you're talking about) will rule the day.
While I see the point (barely) that you're trying to make, it's fraught with too many places where it becomes nothing more than mob rule. Tension and contained fear is what you get in an job site like that. That's not the atmosphere I'd want to work in even if I was popular and my job was secure.
Sadly, you're describing what often happens in a union shop. Piss off the foreman? No problem. Piss off the committeeman? Stand by for a knee replacement.
There's quite a difference between the concept of company employees forcing someone out and the governments we elect to power. While people in our governments aren't above playing dirty politics when it suits them, they're under much higher scrutiny by the general public and our media industries than any that would happen in a small company.
In my garage (that's attached to the house) I put in nine used 4' fixtures that I got from a demolition. When it's cold the bulbs hum and flicker until they warm up but other than that they seem to work fine.
Last summer I built a 26' x28' shop out back. I live in a cold climate and only heat the shop when I'm working out there. I installed nine of the high output 8' fixtures. Lots of light with no hum and flicker. No bulbs have burned out yet. The fixtures are about twice as expensive and the bulbs are three times as expensive. The 8' bulbs are much easier to replace than the 4'.
I was able to build this shop because of my good union wages and I'll be able to retire in two years at age 60 because I will be able to live well on my good union pension.
Not all unions are alike just as all companies are not alike. I work in a building trades union. I went through a five year apprenticeship to learn my trade. We compete (myself and my union brothers) with the non-union every day and have done so all of my working lifetime. We compete because we work hard and are well trained. We have no seniority clauses in our contracts. If you don't work, you don't keep your job.
Yes, there are corrupt union officials, just as there are corrupt management officials, corrupt bankers, corrupt politicians, and corrupt clergymen. Just because some are bad does not mean that they all are.
Where I work, my employers have placed me in the top category they can, but, due to the contract with the Teamsters, they can not give me a merit raise. And I definitely warrant one.
So I'm booking outta there. They blame the union but I can see that reps from both sides signed that contract. Sorry, but $10.50 / hr. for BEING the entire maintenance department for >200,000 sq ft of packaging plant doesn't cut it. When arrived, there were always a couple of machines in my work area. When I took over, there was seldom more than one machine down. That is, there was always at least one production line idled. Commencing with a few months after my predecessor left, there is probably no more than an hour or so per week of accumulated downtime for the entire plant.
Anybody who can pull that off is worth a heck of a lot more than $10.50.
I couldn't agree more. It's the biggest scam ever perpetuated how these clowns get promoted to the highest positions and get paid so much. I've watched them give totally unrealistic revenue forecasts to make themselves look good. Then when the numbers inevitably don't come through, they get unceremoniously fired. But in the meantime, they made in that year what I made in three years and probably got another two years worth of severance pay. And all for doing less than nothing. Then when they are gone, they are hardly missed at all. If you look at them, they are all the same. It's just a boy's club where the right socioeconomic background is what makes the whole thing go around. Intelligence, creativity or good intentions are unnecessary, if not despised.
I guess it may depend on the industry you're in- There's only a very few that get that treatment, and it is because they are obviously and blatently disregarding all the policies of the company. When a guy is causing others to get injured or refusing to work *at all* (and we've had a few of each- usually it's the same guy doing both) it's not ok to wait 6 months for HR to build a file against them. The last guy it happened to managed to snap a bandsaw blade into the face of one of my co-workers, and gave him a scar he'll carry for the rest of his life. I shudder to think of what would have happened had he been allowed to operate the overhead crane. In a dangerous environment, screwing around and general incompetance can be the difference between life and death, and in that case- yes, I do advocate pushing the offenders out the door.
Of course, if you're in an office and you don't like the way someone files papers it may be an entirely different story. Ditto for many other forms of lighter work where the problem may be that they are causing someone inconvenience, rather than actively endangering others. I should have been a little more clear there the first time around- I was talking about shop enviroments and heavy industry.
That *is* a sad wage- especially for maintenance. I think starting wage for any maintenance around here is at least $15/hr, if the classifieds are anything to go by. $10.50 has got to be hard to live on. Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
Ok, I can't object to something like that. Causing injury due to negligence or laziness isn't to be tolerated under any circumstances.
And from a little experience, I can sympathize. A number of years ago when I was 18 and working ground crew at Toronto airport, there was one guy especially that was usually drunk or well on his way to getting there. He'd raid the bar trolleys on the planes every chance he could got. One day, I witnessed him falling 15 feet off one of the mobile stair ramps. He wasn't seriously hurt that I can recall, but after that, I refused to work on his crew citing personality differences. The union reps brushed the whole thing over as a simple accident. A week later, he ran a luggage jeep into the wing of a 737. There was quite a bit of damage. I'm not sure about 737s and wing tanks, but there could have been a hell of an explosion under worse circumstances. This time there was a more serious inquiry, but again the union protected him enough to keep his job.
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