First Table Saw?

[Adam]

Hey Guys,

As I start to watch more and more wood working shows I start to get more and more ideas as to different things I'd like to build. I am realizing that I really need to get a table saw.

I was just at my local Woodcraft store and got to talking to one of the sales people about table saws. I was asking him about the differences and he was really pushing me towards a Steelcity brand. I have never heard of that brand, but that doesn't surprise me too much. What does surprise me is that he was initially pushing me towards a $1000 model.

I mentioned that the model was a little pricey, so he pointed to another model (not sure which one), but discounted it by saying that the fence wasn't that good and I would be much better off with the Steelcity model.

I'd hate to buy something that is going to be way more than I need. Sure I am looking for precision, but not at a huge cost. I am sure there has to be something at a lower cost that is reasonable.

What kind of table saws do you guys recommend for a guy just getting into this and also for one who doesn't have a TON of room?

I'd really do not want to go over $500 as I would like to pick up a jointer too sometime soon.

Also can someone confirm whether or not he was trying to up-sell to me rather than taking account of my needs?

Thanks,

Adam

[sweet sawdust]

I would suggest that you go to grizzly.com and look at thier line of TS price range is from $95 to $9000. You should be able to get something decent there for around half of the wood craft price. They make a good tool for the money and the service dept is good.

[efgh]

I'd suggest the Ridgid table saw available at your local Home Depot. Other people here seem to have had good experiences with it.

[DonkeyHody]

Steel City is a relatively new brand. Many of their executives left Delta to start the company. I don't own any Steel City tools, but they seem like a good value to me. A thousand dollars buys a middle- of-the-road tablesaw, not top-of-the-line.

If you stay serious about woodworking, your last saw will probably cost well over $1,000. But that doesn't mean your first saw has to. You can find a saw that will meet your needs (for a while) for $500. If you remain smitten by the woodworking bug, you'll outgrow it and buy another, but if not, your investment in a passing fancy was smaller. You'll have to work around some of the shortcomings of a $500 saw, but I see value in that too. The sweetness of a really fine tool is only improved by the memory of what you had before.

DonkeyHody "Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there." - Will Rogers

[bookman]

to do in the

You are looking for someone else to do your work for you and will soon realize they have it done it poorly. YOU need to go to the library and read every back issue of every woodworking magazine that has a review of contractor, hybrid and cabinet saws available. Make a list of what you want to do with the saw right now, what you may it to do in the future, and how much money you have to spend (forget the jointer for now, put your money into a good saw!). Then travel as far as necessary to put your hands on each saw and get a feel for each. Then decide for yourself which will make you happy. If you won't do this then be prepared to blow in the wind as each saw bias come charging at you from the many experts you find here.

[Gary A in KC]

I'll give you the advice that most of the people here would. If you're really going to get into woodworking, your table saw is the cornerstone of your workshop. It's the most used and most important tool you'll ever buy. So choose wisely! That being said, I survived 10+ years with a 10" Craftsmen contractor's style saw. I added a decent aftermarket Vega fence to it and was pretty happy. Saw had its limitations but I built a lot of furniture on it over the years. But after replacing it with a Delta Unisaw some years ago, I wonder what took me so long to go to a more powerful cabinet saw. Yes, it's more expensive - but the advantages, the power, precision, etc are well worth it. Girzzly has some decent models at various price points - but you get what you pay for. Steel City is a new entry into the market and by all accounts has done a really solid job of designing good tools for woodworkers and maintained good quality control over production. Powermatics always seem to be great tools (top end cabinet saws). SawStop is probably a must to at least look at. Reviews are good on the tool and the safety feature is a really good idea for someone getting into woodworking - but very pricey. I'd probably go the SawStop route if purchasing again. The Marc Adams school replaced all their saws with SawStops (I'm sure there were liability concerns as a school with thouands of students using them) and they seem to like them. So bottom line - to me, the table saw is the most important tool purchase you'll make (until the next one). Buy as much quality as you can and you'll be happy you did.

my 2 cents

Gary A in KC

"Adam" wrote in message news:M4adncN6P5N0c8XanZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]...

[mac davis]

[top posted cuz I'm lazy]

I always recommend that your first table saw be used and cheap, so you can make mistakes on it and not beat up/abuse a new saw..

Having said that and done that, I have to say that I bought the Ridgid TS3650 at Home Depot about 6 months ago and I'm very impressed with it.. I'm certainly not a saw expert, but I really like the large table/wings, the solid fence with the magnified rule, and how quiet it is. (compared to my Shopsmith, anyway) A big plus for me was that it comes with their "Herculift" mobile base.. An option on most saws.. All-in-all, I think it's a lot of saw for $550...

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

[Larry Blanchard]

Steel City actually has a small cabinet saw for around $900. It's a real cabinet saw but with a 1.75HP motor and runs on 110.

Maybe a bit much for someone who's not sure he'll like woodworking, but for those past that point and looking for a saw I think it's a pretty good choice.

And yes, I work part-time at Woodcraft. We have a lot of nice saws I'd suggest for an experienced woodworker, including the SawStop, but I think the little Steel City is in a class by itself. Other Woodcrafters may not agree :-).

[Gus]

Check out the Sears (Orion) hybrid saws.

Orion is made up of ex-Delta employees as I understand it.

These hybrids are an exceptionally good value and can be had at large discounts, figuring in "Craftsman Club", coupons, etc.

The following link is for the saw I own, a 22114. It's a beauty.

no, I have no vested interest in Sears.

[Jane & David]

Adam,

Selecting the best saw for your needs is going to be tough or maybe easy depending on your attitude. There is no perfect saw, everyone's needs are a little different, etc. In fact if you do some research you'll find that knowledgeable experts can come to opposite conclusions - compare some of those magazine tool tests.

I am not a knowledgeable expert, but here's what I did. After many years of using various saws in other shops, I set up shop at home. I went through about the same questions that you are dealing with. I wound up with a Jet contractor saw, and it has done a really good job for me. But I wouldn't consider more expensive saws at the time because I didn't understand how I could justify all that money. I soon realized that my Jet could use some improvements to make it easier to do accurate work.

I now have the Jet contractor's saw with a much better fence (General, Canada), a Biesemeyer splitter, a link belt, some balanced pulleys, mobile base, outfeed and right side extensions (with router table), an Excaliber blade guard for dust control, Forrest blade, good miter gauge(s), TS Aligner to keep things straight, and I can't remember what else. It's a very good basic saw and now does beautiful work as long as I'm careful so everything stays in-alignment. But if I add up the money I've spent improving it I'm sure I have more than paid for a top quality cabinet saw - but I still don't really have cabinet saw precision.

If I were to replace my saw right now, I'd buy either a SawStop, or a Powermatic. I've already paid the equivalent of the Powermatic, and if I add up all the time I've spent overcoming the shortcomings of my Jet I bet it would equal the cost of the SawStop.

You can cut wood with a straight edge and a sharp rock but you'll eventually want things to be a bit easier. And beginners need precise tools more than experts do. Whether that precision turns out to be overkill is unknowable now but interesting to think about.

Good luck, and enjoy your set-up whatever it turns out to be.

PDX David

[pzi]

I second to that - I got my ridgid 3650 with 36" ripping fence and super lifting wheels to move this 300lb cast iron saw around the shop. With 2.5" dust collection port I have it connected to delta dust collection with 1200cfm and still under $1000 for both.

[Lew Hodgett]

RE: Subject

It is not the saw, it's the fence that deserves attention.

Start with a good fence, I like Unifence, but there are others, jack it up then drive anything under it that wants to call itself a table saw, and you will probably be happy with the results.

Lew

[CM]

Adam,

Buy a contractors style table saw. Jet, Delta, Rigid are all good brands. I bought my Jet for less than $500.00 5 years ago and love it. We bought it for our restoration business and it has served us well.

[RayV]

I agree with Mac, go used. You can find decent saws on Craigslist almost every day for $200 or less.

You can easily get by for years, maybe even forever, with a contractor saw unless you are regularly cutting 8/4 Maple.

Save the money for other tools and more importantly wood, dead trees are very expensive.

[RayV]

Here's a good starting point on buying used

[GarageWoodworks]

My first (and current) table saw set me back $400.00 (home depot). I am still using it today. Here are the short comings of my (and possibly other low end saws):

1) Under powered. When cutting thick stock of hard wood (maple, cherry, etc.) my saw will frequently throw a breaker unless I feed SLOW. 2) Poor fence. 3) Table saw surface not perfectly flat.

My primary goal at the time was to insure I was purchasing a TS with a cast iron top. DO NOT GET AN ALUMINUM top saw.

It is possible to make beautiful furniture with a cheapo $400.00 saw (have a look at a some of my work and see my saw:

I plan on upgrading to a more powerful saw (PM 2000).

So if I could give a little advice, sure, you can stick with your $500 budget and buy an adequate saw that will allow you to try out the hobby and potentially make some beautiful furniture along the way!!

I would definitely still stick with my original criteria: CAST IRON TOP. Try to get one with the beefiest fence within your budget. IMHO, I wouldn't be overly concerned with power at this point--Sturdy cast iron top, and beefy fence.

Read all you can about Table Saw Safety!!! The first thing you should make (or buy) are some push sticks/blocks. Read about SPLITTERS and the dreaded KICK BACK!

[Edwin Pawlowski]

Depending on where you live, you can often find good used saws at the $500 range. Do some shopping to get a feel for price so you don't end up paying $500 for a beat saw that originally cost $525. If you can get equivalent to the $1000 model you looked at for $500 in good condition, grab it. Tablesaw technology has not changed much in 50 years so you may get a real gem with a few years on it.

Don't buy a cheap direct drive benchtop model.

I'll second the cast iron top.

[Upscale]

And I'll third the cast iron top if there is something like thirding. There's two other things the OP might consider which was the route I followed with my first saw.

My first saw was a 1 HP contractor's saw with really heavy cast iron top and wings. I used it happily and built some relatively nice looking stuff for years using this stock beast. At some point I found out that a carbide tipped blade was a good idea. That made a big difference in my projects, however my projects jumped a quantum level when I added a third party fence to the mix. The replacement fence cost me $400 CA at the time which was more than twice what I paid for the saw originally. Of course, 20 years elapsed between those two purchases, but with the new fence and the carbide tipped blade, I could build really nice stuff. My only wish is that I'd found out about them many years earlier.

[Bonehenge (B A R R Y)]

Two suggestions, based on my past experiences with my Jet contractor's saw:

- Don't use an extension cord

- Use a GOOD 20-24T rip blade on thick stock.

If you're already doing that, consider the lurkers.

With a 40T WWII or 50T Freud combo, I can slow down my 220V, 3 HP (North American HP, not Far Eastern) General cabinet saw with thick wood. It'll take 8/4 white oak or maple as fast as I can humanly feed it with a 24T full-kerf Freud rip blade. I could trip breakers with the Jet ripping thick stock with a combo blade.

I totally agree about the aluminum top. Leave those for the jobsite saws.

[NoviceOne]

I bought the Craftsman branded version of this. I compared photos of the Steel City trunnion with that on my saw and they're the same. That interests me because I've found the 1.75hp motor to be a limitation and I'd like to replace it with a 3hp motor. I emailed Steel City asking if I could upgrade the motor and they suggested I buy a new saw of theirs.

Does anyone know the the specification of the 1.75hp motor? Perhaps if I had that I could go to a local motor shop and get a 3hp to replace the under powered motor.

A beg> >