Finishing the new shop floor

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Based on previous comments I will be installing Advantech on 2X4 PT sleepers over concrete tomorrow. I expect it to take 2 or 3 days for 2 71 year olds to do.
Once installed I want to put on 2 coats of polyurethane. I have always lightly sanded between poly coats and expect to do so on the Advantech. My question is how is the best way to sand a 28X30 floor. A machine seems out of the question.
I have though about one of those pole sanders that drywall people use but wonder if someone else has an idea.
Or does someone thing I don't need to sand between coats?
Thanks for any comments.
Jim
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On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 11:01:48 PM UTC-5, swalker wrote:

Read the instructions on the can, about recoating. With some polys, you can recoat within a certain time after initial application, without having to sand. After the time limit, it's recommended you sand.
If need be, apply your poly in sections, to remain within the time limit for recoating without having to sand.
Sonny
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On 6/20/2016 12:26 AM, Sonny wrote:

A pole sander is good, it will knock them off.
--
Jeff

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On 6/19/16 11:01 PM, swalker wrote:

Personally, I think you're doing too much work. The stuff already resists moisture pretty darn well, so I don't see the need for poly. And it's very rough surface, relatively, so the sanding between coats is a moot point. Sanding between finish coats is for removing any fuzz/dust that accumulates on the surface and possibly give some "grip" to the surface. Advantech is already 10x more rough than any dust accumulation that would occur between coats.
But if I were to coat it, I would use a roll on or spray on deck caoting or garage floor coating. A thick, latex based garage floor coating material will be the only thing that would add any smoothing to the surface of Advantech.
--

-MIKE-

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.. don't forget the oil-based primer coat, under latex ..
http://www.huberwood.com/technical-library/1/0?alias vantech
Can I paint AdvanTech® subflooring and sheathing panels?
AdvanTech panels can be left natural, stained, varnished or painted with oil- or epoxy-based paints, or oil-based primer and latex paint. Water seal is not recommended. AdvanTech panels are not recommended for exterior siding or other applications that are permanently exposed to the weather. John T.
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http://www.huberwood.com/technical-library/1/0?alias vantech
Slab Preparation: Cover the slab with a minimum 4 mil (6 mil preferred) polyethylene sheeting. The polyethylene sheet should be glued to the slab with an adhesive that will bond to both concrete and plastic. All joints in the polyethylene sheeting should be lapped a minimum 4". These laps should also be glued to ensure an adequate moisture seal
I wonder what's wrong with a concrete shop floor ? And how long 2 coats of poly will really last John T.
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snipped-for-privacy@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

My thought too.

Well, I painted mine 20 years ago - not two coats though, just one really heavy one - and it is still good enough that I wouldn't even think of repainting.
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On 6/20/2016 7:07 AM, dadiOH wrote:

takes it's toll) really would prefer wood over concrete.

--
Jeff

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swalker wrote:

My only comment is a question: why are you bothering with sleepers and sub-floor panels for a shop floor when your existing concrete will work just fine?
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On 6/20/2016 7:02 AM, dadiOH wrote:

concrete.
--
Jeff

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wrote:

It also gives a space to run power and air to stationary machinery and free-standing benches. My basement floor dusts quite a bit, too.
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On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 8:54:44 AM UTC-7, woodchucker wrote:

There's never just wood over concrete, it'd be a moisture nightmare in addition to a foot killer. You raise a wood floor an inch or so above the concrete with furring strips (if that's not the wrong name). There are also interlocking panel waffle-tiles to keep your foottsies above the concrete, at a price.
<http://homerenovations.about.com/od/floors/tp/BasementSubfloorTiles.htm
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On 6/19/2016 11:01 PM, swalker wrote:

Typically polyurethane is sanded to keep the surface smooth. Do you really care about that on a shop floor?
Now if the instructions require this, try one of the following.
Alternatively, "Bona" brand floor mops come with a Velcro like method to attach flat bottomed mop pads. Perhaps some Velcro backed sand paper will stick to that mob head.
Or spray some liquid sand paper on the mop and mop away.
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.... keeping in mind that all the debris particles from the abrasive and the poly - that results from whatever method of sanding - - will need to be thoroughly cleaned off before the second coat... I'd be liking concrete floor more & more. John T.
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I had always understood that it was sanded to ensure a good mechanical grip between coats, if enough time had passed between coats for the first one to cure.
I gather that in recent times there's been some debate about how long it takes a coat of poly to cure sufficiently that there is no chemical bond between coats (this time being signficantly longer than the time it takes for a coat to harden and feel dry).
John
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On 6/20/2016 10:07 AM, John McCoy wrote:

Some require the sanding between coats, some don't.
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On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 12:16:26 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
Most of finishing/refinishing is folklore, passed from unwilling paint slin gers to clear sealer appliers when the time comes for them to face the musi c.
It isn't based on anything other than rumor and hearsay, rarely on fact and almost never on hands on experience unless the person telling the story is using the most safe of methods they know to finish.
Mike Marlow and I are both professional finishers, and we have our standard laugh between us that let us know when we had graduated from "hobby" to "p rofessional". We read the instructions on the can. If in doubt, call the 800 number for the product.

There are some finishes that request a sanding between coats, but they are mostly homeowner style products that have a manufacturer hedging his bet th at the applicant of their product isn't paying attention to what they are d oing. Sanding does help remove nibs if in an unclean environment, but more importantly it removes the plastic layer of the applied finish to expose a less cured surface to ensure better bonding.
Personally, unless I have a sag, drip, a bug that crawls in the finish, or something else mechanical to deal with, I don't ever sand and haven't for a bout 20 years now. That includes interior/exterior doors (oil and latex), kitchen cabinets (oil clear coats), bath cabinets (oil paints/clear coats) and on an on. I follow the instructions on the can, and if using a new pro duct I call the manufacturer with questions.

This varies widely by product. A good rule of thumb when applying finish i n moderate weather is to not wait longer than 12 hours for most finishes. Most urethanes call for an 8 hour recoat, but you can stretch it to twelve IF you have moderate weather (not in the late 80s - 90s).
So how can you tell if it is ready to recoat since literally every job is d ifferent? This works with oil based paint and with clear coats. Lightly p ress your thumb on the surface and raise it straight up. If you see your th umbprint, you are a couple of hours away. If you see about 1/4 of a faint print, get your gear out and get ready to go. When you are ready, apply. ( I had an older fellow show me that about 20 years ago and he was spot on.)
Many products don't recommend recoat after 72 hours. Rather, if you pass t hat mark you need to wait until the product is cured out, which is about 21 days, then sand it down hard to bring up a surface that will yield better traction. Be aware though, that waiting after your 72 hour period will not yield the best results since the poly WILL NOT resolvate with itself. Aft er 72 hours, you will have two separate coats of finish.
Try a product like this:
http://goo.gl/iH44wE
It comes in gloss and satin. Your pick. This actually IS a "professional" grade product. Read the can myself... just kidding... ;^) It is consider ed "professional because it is a whopping 50% solids (!!!) and it dries for recoat in about 3 - 6 hours (remember your test technique. That is a fast dry poly; it is made for a "pro" to get there on the job in the morning an d apply, come back at the end of the day and 2nd coat. No sanding between coats. Wait 48-72 hours and it is ready for light foot traffic. Like all of these coatings, cured strength is 21-30 days before you can mop it with light solvents.
Since you will be putting it on an unfinished surface, I would thin enough product to cover the floor by about 10 - 15% and flood the surface with the product. Let it sit about 4 hours, then put an unthinned coat on, and sec ond coat later, as soon as it is ready. So for me, that would mean flood c oat around 1 o'clock, then first coat after that, then another coat first t hing in the morning.
If this is at your house or where you have continued access, you could floo d coat in the early morning, first coat around noon to one, then wait as la te as possible and final coat. A product like that allows you to finish a job in a long day, which for any finisher is a blessing. You will wind up buying more than a five of this as they list coverage at 400sq ft per galli n with a 1 - 1 1/2 mil coat. Not a remote chance that will happen. I pers onally would figure for //any// of these coatings on a floor surface no mor e than 250ft a gallon coverage when you apply a coat (not the flood coat, b ut the finish coats) of about 3 mil. You might want to shop for a similar p roduct, or find that one at a local paint store for immediate purchase shou ld you run short.

More and more aren't requiring sanding or even mentioning it. The factory rep for Sherwin Williams told me that same thing that I have heard over and over. NO ONE reads the instructions, they just put on finish the way their grandfather did decades ago and call it good.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

I'm glad to see you recommend it. I've used it for the last decade or so but mostly because it is reasonably priced.
Home Depot carries it (in gallon sizes) but they make it hard to find...usually on the bottom shelf.
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On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 6:38:02 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

The endorsement of someone using the product for a decade carries more weig ht than someone like me that used it once or twice. I have recommended it to others and they liked it as well. Thanks for the info, real experience is hard find these days.
I wouldn't leave a shop floor unfinished. Once you get the equipment in an d placed, it will be almost impossible to get the shop equipment moved arou nd in a fashion that will you to put some finish on the floor. And with a shop full of "shop stuff" that is dusty and dirty, foot traffic that grinds in the dust and dirt from outside and inside to the flooring, you will nev er have the opportunity to work a surface that pristine again to get maximu m adhesion. Not mention how much easier a finished floor is to clean and m aintain.
Just a thought...
Robert
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On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 6:38:02 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

I'll have to try it. Lots cheaper than Varethane Floor finish ($50/gal), which I've mostly used for "utility" projects, the past 10-15 yrs. I may not have the patience for the oil (dust collecting before drying to touch), but it does state it's fast drying, so I'll see.
One thing to consider about a finished wood shop floor. My shop is a repur posed rent house, with 2" wide oak flooring in some areas. The old finish is in fairly good shape. When sawdust collects, even a light dusting, it's slippery. Finished Advantech may not be as smooth (as slippery) a surface .
Sonny
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