Dust collection piping sticker shock

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OK, so I figured when I formalize my dust collection for the home shop I'll just go to Grizzly and order all the metal pipe, fittings and blast gates I need. Going all metal I'll avoid the static problems. Going with smooth pipe I avoid the friction loss of flex, yada, yada. Well even with a very conservitive 2 branch run it is a bit costly.
So if I go plastic and religiously run the copper wire, etc. can I just use standard ABS or something of the sort?
BW
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SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I used 4" schedule 40. No ground.
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Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
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Oh, boy, here we go again. :-)
General consensus here is that the grounding wire is not necessary. Google Groups search will turn up hundreds of posts here on the subject.
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On Mar 27, 2:56 pm, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Being a safety nut I'll probably do it. I have seen it detailed so specifically in the Grizzly and other help docs. But I can be convinced with science so maybe I'll research that while I look around for answers about using pvc or abs.
Thanks for the reminder.
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On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 14:07:32 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"

Safety has nothing to do with it any more than spreading scraps of paper in your yard keeps the elephants away. Can't happen, and a friend of mine who's at MIT wrote this article a few years ago after conducting some experiments and running some math: http://home.comcast.net/~rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html
If you can find a single documented case of a home shop dust collection system exploding you will win the grand prize of being the first. No one else has, becuase it can't happen.
All the stories of grain elevators and factories are true. The problem is scale. The conditions in those places (huge volume, huge quantity of fine particulate, etc.) which can lead to static spark explosion don't exist in any home shop--even if you have a 2000 ft^2 out building.
If you want a metaphor to put it in perspective, watch a movie about ships (WWII are fine examples). Whenever it comes to explosions and sinking, they always use models. You can always tell it's a model by the water. Water molecules can't scale down. Splashes and foam are the same size whether it's a model or a real ship creating them.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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LRod wrote: ...

I generally agree w/ the article (and was going to post that a substantial portion was published in FWW a few years ago) but you've taken a liberty in the above statement. I haven't studied it thoroughly to see what changes/updates have been made, but I don't believe the conclusion drawn is "impossible", only "improbable".
It depends on the local conditions and, as noted, size and dust density.
--
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Absolutely agree, the DC could cause a chain reaction problem other substances other than saw dust. There are plenty of flammables in the typical shop that only need a spark to start something undesirable.
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I'm comfortable with the liberty I took. Based on Rod's article and my paragraph noting the utter lack of evidence of it ever happening in a home shop makes it a lock in my book. Other's books may vary.
Yes, "improbable" was Rod's conclusion. And I understand that the lack of evidence is not evidence, but it sure is an extremely powerful indicator when considered in conjunction with the article.
--
LRod

Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
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SonomaProducts.com wrote:

<http://home.comcast.net/~rodec/woodworking/articles/DC_myths.html
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Yep, Bill Pentz's site gives pretty much the same conclusions. However, I did like the info Bill provvided about using aluminum tape inside and outside the length of the ducting jump grounded acrocss joints, etc. This at least avoids getting zapped. Also, the big danger I guess is sucking up sparks from mechanical activity. The article you referenced speaks about how not just explosion but even more likely smoldering fires. Yikes. I think maybe Bill's suggestion to NOT include a floor sweep opening where you can suck up screws to spark off the impellors is probably a good idea.
I guess I'll be adding a few fire sprinklers to my garage shop.

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On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 21:56:02 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

You're right that a ground isn't necessary for safety reasons. But think of how much static cling you get when you cut a piece of PVC with your miter saw for example. Now imagine that static cling for the entire run of your ungrounded dust collection piping. It makes clean up a real bitch.
That is the only reason I grounded my system and it works great.
G.S.
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Bill Pentz has a recommendation on his site to run two strips of aluminum tape along the pipe. One on the inside and one on the outside on the same spot in the pipe. Then drill a hole through the pipe and connect the two pieces.
Here's the link to the referenced site: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/Cyclone/ducting.cfm#StaticElectricity
I'm working on setting up dust collection, too. I might be going overboard, but I'll probably go with 6" PVC pipe to the machines. (I'm also planning on a ClearVue cyclone that'll power the whole thing.)
Puckdropper
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SonomaProducts.com wrote:

I just went through this whole exercise - I didn't buy any of my ductwork from Grizzly because they only sell the top of the line stuff and their price is Out Of This World. Choosing not to use PVC, the only other option I found was galvanized "snap lock". The HVAC industry uses it, and they also carry a measly inventory of it at Lowe's Depot, but good luck trying to find any gauge thicker than 30 at ANY of those places (you need at least 26 gauge). I looked and LOOKED and found that pretty much the only games in town are Penn State and KenCraft:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/ductwork.html http://www.kencraftcompany.com/Dustindex.htm
I bought a significant amount of stuff from both companies, and I can tell you right now - Go with KenCraft for everything you can unless they just don't have what you need. The quality is better and they ship it FAST! Penn State has *some* good stuff (if you can figure it out ahead of time from their mediocre descriptions), but some of it is crap and they take *forever* to ship it. Let me know if you want particulars and I can probably help you out.
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I finished my raised floor this year and put in the snap lock ducting from lowes/home depot. I used the regular stuff they had, it is probably 30 gauge. I did a test by running a few lengths and shutting off the end with a blast gate. I couldn't collapse it. My DC is the old 220V grizzly (I think it is 2 HP). I run it directly out in the back of the shop with no bags because I get extra suction that way. I have had no problems with the thin stuff and I have plenty of suction for saw, planer and jointer (not all at the same time, run through blast gates).
I did have to go to 4-5 different stores to get all the correct fittings. BTW, I ran the 6" size and use 6 to 4" reducers for the hoses. I guess I violated every rule in Bill Pentz's book, but I have absolutely no complaints.
My experience
Montyhp
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montyhp wrote:

That's good to know, but it would be nice if we all knew the exact definition of "thin stuff" - 30 gauge from one vendor isn't the same as 30 gauge from another. I used my micrometer on samples of ducting from practically every BORG and HVAC supply place within a 20 mile radius and I wound up with almost as many thicknesses as there were samples. I even found two different thicknesses of 6"x24" at a single Lowe's because their supplies came from two different vendors. I bought practically every piece of the "thicker" stuff they had because it was cheaper (!) - they were closing it out OF COURSE (bastages!). I wound up using a few smaller forty-fives (and what not) of the "thin stuff" from the BORGs because of easy availability, and I figured they'd be far less likely to collapse; I've had no trouble either, but for the longer straight tubes I didn't want to resort to using it. Some of that tubing is so thin you can literally bend it between the tips of your thumb and forefinger. Knowing how much suction my 2HP Grizzly cyclone pulls I didn't want to risk it.
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About 3 years ago I finally added a DC, I have two 10', 4" diameter clear flex hoses connected to it. The 2 hoses form "1", 20' hose that I simply move to which ever tool I am using. IIRC the hose and connectors on sale cost me about $40, 3 years ago. I have never wanted for any thing more permanent.
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BTY I used no ground wire but have once or twice gotten a pretty good zap from it. I use mine with a 16' garage door open just in case fumes want to collect high.
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Seriously though, what fumes would accumlate from machining the wood? Sanding, cutting, planing, etc do not seem like the kind of thing to produce fumes.
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wrote:

That is Texas, remember? LOTS of fumes. <G>
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Hey.... knock it off up there!
<VBG>
mmmmmm..... chili....beer....
Buddy, that's real gas, not fumes!
Robert
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