Design for my garage shop

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dpb wrote:

You are right. If I had not started this thread the day would have probably come when I would be left scratching my head wondering why the 240v plug on my TS (to be) wouldn't fit into the 240v 50A outlet I currently have. That would br about as funny as a flow of 0v out of an ill-fitting C'Breaker--this kind of stuff is a source of good comedy ... : )
Bill
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dpb wrote:

It's only 3 years old, and you're darn right, it's live! A nice aspect of this project is it barely involves the main panel at all. I think I wish to respect this division.
What's to be gained from dismounting a 3-yr old box/wiring? The inside is clean as a whistle..
Bill

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Bill wrote: ...

...
I thought you were complaining about there being broken/pieced sheetrock behind/around the box in question and were asking about how to pretty that up...my suggestion was based on that, and to do so I'd just temporarily unmount the box, put up a ply mounting board w/ neat edges to finish against and put it back...
If somesuch wasn't what you meant, sorry, we had a "failure to communicate" moment... :)
--
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Thank you. At this point, the panel is seated so that the lip of the top sets flush on top of the wallboard. I'm really not sure how the panel is secured, I thought it was typical to screw them into studs through the sides, but as large as it is, it seems likely that it is secured also on the back and/or on both sides. I was hoping to just replace the wallboard on top. Since it has to fit under the lip, it will require two pieces of wallboard unless I unmount the panel--and I hadn't considered that until you mentioned it today.
BTW, I mentioned that my desk was "surrounded by books" and I mentioned Hemmingway. I don't want that to misguide anyone. Basicly, most of my books are on either math, computer science, woodworking, or music. As I've mentioned in other threads, I'd like to build a few instruments some day. It appears that I'm going to see how to put up and wire a panel, install my own outlets, and put up some wallboard first--and at this point that's okay with me. The project seem quite in the general spirit of "woodworking" (to me). A chunk of free time would be helpful, and I'll get that in May.
Best, Bill
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Frustrated that I didn't know how my main panel was mounted, I visited it with a screwdriver. Careful that I wasn't grounded I opened the cover, and started to remove the only 2 screws that were inside, one at the center of the top and one at the center of the bottom. After noting that that they corresponded to a plate whose removal wasn't going to help me, I tighted them back down.
Now, having read what little I could find online, I few stupid just for having done that.
I since learned, from reading, how much can possibly go wrong just by removing the cover. Surely the 8 screws around the outside will free it and there is "most certainly" a backing board to which it is screwed to which is really holding it up. To me, it seemed at first that the 8 screws around the outside were holding it up... I'm glad I didn't let that plate fall loose inside the panel! Who knows what horrible nasty things could have possibly happened... :(
I understand the logic of the system (BTW, the main board is a Siemans and the subpanel I bought is a Cutler-Hammer). Surely the new subpanel will want a backing board too. Since I was planning to install the subpanel right next to the main panel, I thought that I might learn something from examining the main panel. I don't think I have to tell you, who know, however, that **you're not supposed to mess with the main panel!**--at least that's the message that comes accrossed!! I think I've come to the temporary conclusion that my curiosity doesn't justify my messing with it. The wrong close look could get ya!
Another tip I learned while reading was to shut off all of the circuit breakers, before shutting off the main one, before adding a new one. Like Swingman says, this stuff makes sense, you just need someone to tell you what makes sense.
In a way, even a sideways step is a step forward--I'm just glad I didn't make an expensive one. When I was about 10 I read quite a bit of the book, "The Boy Electrician"--even built a thing or two. The stakes are higher now.
Bill
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=When I was about 10 I read quite a bit of the book,

I see the book is free online. I single-handedly made the thing on page 198 (Fig. 153, "The Medical Coil") when I was 13. It worked too. I remember going to buy some "iron wire" at the hardware store. I repeated asked the clerk at the hardware store, "is it iron?" I couldn't get a definitive answer...lol...The question would probably annoy a store clerk today as much as it did back when. Seriously. Have your young son or daughter ask and see. Or just imagine it. : )
Bill
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On 3/21/2010 5:23 AM, Bill wrote:

How the times have changed. Can you imagine the hue and cry that would go up today if Youth Services found out that somebody was letting their kid play with lead and acid?
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You did a nice job of explaining that (about the wire size). I honestly thought that a malfunction in one tool on a circuit could possibly result in the damage to another tool on the same circuit. I considered the separate circuits cheap insurance and that's why *I* thought Lew suggested separate circuits (though he never actually said that). That's not the reason, huh?
Bill
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Bill wrote:

---------------------------------------
Standardization and simplicity.
Buy 500 ft spools of #10AWG, 105C insulation wire in Red, Black, White & Green.
Use 3/4 PVC conduit.
Use 2P-30A, full size c'bkrs for each fixed 240V load (T/S, D/C, Compressor, etc.)
Run individual 120V circuits using 1P-20A half size c'bkrs and #10AWG wire to 2 gang, extra deep wall boxes wired with two (2) industrial, back wired duplex receptacles.
Locate 2 gang boxes every 10-20 ft along wall, at 48" elevation.
Dedicate at least three (3), 1P-20A circuits for lighting.
Finally, buy a 10-2 with ground, 25 ft long molded cord set, chop off the receptacle end and rewire with an extra deep, 2 gang box wired with a pair of receptacles.
It becomes your "go to" extension cord.
NOTES:
Purpose of running #10AWG wire on 20A circuits for this job is ECONOMY.
Standardizing on one size wire, then buying full spools of wire is less costly than buying cut lengths of wire.
Running 3/4 conduit makes wire pulling a lot easier than using 1/2 conduit.
Using PVC conduit eliminates the need for buying a conduit bender and learning how to use it.
If job was big enough to justify buying full spools of #10AWG & #12AWG, then by all means do it, but this job isn't big enough.
Lew
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Lew, I printed out your detailed directions. Thank you. I also picked up the 125A, MLO, 12/24 Load Center today. It looked good, met the description, and was only $29.99 (at Menards), and before I knew it I said "I'll take it!". I'll look at it more carefully and I'll check that everything about it is truly suitable. I also picked up two 3/4" NM clamp connectors which I believe is appropriate for #6 or #8 wiring between the main and subpanel and--a wiring book. Also spent a while looking at indoor wiring and absorbing info about all sorts of related things with the awe of someone really seeing them for the first time. Maybe that's part of new-homeowner syndrome, or maybe it's because I had an "Erector Set" when I grew up (anyone remember those?).
When I got home I looked at the Menards circular and kicked myself for not picking up "Ugly's Electrical References" on the NEC, on sale for $7.99.
It is amazing how many home projects that I can consider now with much less "fear and trepidation" than I would have had a little over a week ago! Electrical plug not on the right side of the room--no problem! : )
Best, Bill
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Bill,
If you get a chance I would definately recommend the "Ugly's Electrical References" book. I have one at my desk and far and away the most usefull reference book that I have. I do low voltage designs for a living and it covers that as well.
Good Luck, Steve
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Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions. I read all of them at least 3 times. I picked up Stanley's "Complete Wiring" yesterday. And went back to Menards to get "Ugly's Electrical References", but they were out. Also picked up a 14-terminal ground bar (14 terminals + 2/0 Lug). I asked enough questions to make me more comfortable with what is required to installing my subpanel. Spent a lot of time looking at all of the fixtures I'll need (including the pricier GFCI ones). They definitely did Not push those at me. As least I have some confirmation that what I am doing is consistent with local standards. I'll go the GCFI route because I think it's smart in my environment.
I'll take care to try to work smart. Somebody broke the lock off on what I think may be my main shut off (and as noted, this is important!). I may call the power company. Let me describe my electric:
Back of house has meter. Another meter is on the pole away from the house and just below is is a box with a 15A circuit breaker (which should probably have a lock on its box)! I was thinking this may be my main shutoff (and this is something I would really like to know). 4 feet above this meter is a 3' by 2' by 2' metal box (transformer/distributer?) which makes quite a lot of noise, and 20 feet or more above that is a 5 or 6 foot cylindrical thing (transformer?) near which power lines flow to other poles with cylindrical things 3 or 4 houses away. What would be really nice to know is whether the 15A circuit breaker might be my "main shutoff"--but any relavant info would be useful to me, I'm sure.
I promise to strive to keep learning on my own. Thank you for your indulgence. I bought a pair of linesman's pliers--almost time to learn to use them!
Bill
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...

If I understand your idea, THAT sounds pretty handy! It gets plugged into any wall or ceiling plug, right? I think I've seen receptacles something like you described positioned in the center of work areas. Since you mentioned it, I assume that doing this meets NEC (but, of course, I accept the responsibility of checking for myself).
Bill
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I read that it's better to use 15A circuits for lighting since the wire in lighting fixtures is comparatively fine, such wiring may get screwed up by the time the C'Breaker switches off.
I also read one shouldn't buy the cheapest flourescent lighting fixtures one can find as they tend to have cheap ballasters.

This sounds good.
Is this what you mean?
http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/electrical/race-ways/metal-raceways/raceway-2g-bx-xdeep-hbl500-hbl750-iv?utm_source=biz_shop&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term18418&utm_campaign=Metal-Raceways-biz_shop&infoParam.campaignId=WZ
It's hard to tell if these are up to the task of being dragged around" on a concrete floor.

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"Bill" wrote:

----------------------------------------- You read too much.
By NEC definition, the c'bkr protects the distribution system, the load device be damned.
You are only interested in protecting the insulation on the #12AWG wire feeding the fixture, not the bloody fixture.
-----------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------- You usually get what you pay for.
These days fixtures with T-5 lamps are a pretty good value.
----------------------------------------

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/electrical/race-ways/metal-raceways/raceway-2g-bx-xdeep-hbl500-hbl750-iv?utm_source=biz_shop&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term18418&utm_campaign=Metal-Raceways-biz_shop&infoParam.campaignId=WZ ------------------------------------------- No that's not a two gang box.
Take a trip down to your local big box store electrical section and take a look at the Raco products on display.
I'm sure you will find an extra deep, 2 gang, duplex box in inventory along with a matching cover plate for two duplex receptacles.
It will solve a lot of problems a whole lot faster than screwing around on the web.
Lew
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Thanks for your reply Lew.
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Nonny, Thank you for saving me from learning that lesson the hard way!
Here is a relavant DIY-type link I found, in case anyone else is interested:
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/elect/panel/sub_panel/01/new.htm
Bill
Bill
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On 3/15/2010 12:57 AM, Bill wrote:

Do what Lew said ...
I REPEAT: Do what Lew said!!
If you do what Lew said you will have no problems installing a sub-panel of the right kind that will be flexible and codeworthy (you haven't got into the issue of "grounding" a sub-panel yet, and, depending upon the location, you will most likely need to address grounding with an "insulated ground bar" which generally has to be purchased separately from the breaker box and installed therein).
Save yourself some time, money, and redoing, by paying particular attention to what Lew said!
Got the point yet?
If not, get it ... by doing what Lew said! :)
--
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Last update: 10/22/08
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I think he should do what Lew said to do.
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I think he should do what Lew said to do. ================= Does that include the installation of the epoxy workstation?
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