Dateline Cochran, GA

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On 5/16/2014 6:35 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Oh brother ...
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On Fri, 16 May 2014 17:45:42 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

I haven't had a hot cup of coffee at DDs for more than a decade. Rarely is it any more than warm.
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I don't drink coffee, but I've seen the advertisements for Tim Horton's coffee. I visit one of their stores for lunch three times a week. Tim Horton's guarantees a new pot of coffee every twenty minutes if it isn't finished first. Just for the hell of it, I watched during the lunchtime rush as a new pot of coffee got emptied within six minutes. I don't know how fast a pot would cool, but I'm reasonably sure it would still be pretty damned hot that entire six minutes. ~ enough so to burn skin on contact.
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snipped-for-privacy@none.com wrote:

I confess I've come into work and microwaved the coffee that was leftover from yesterday! ;)
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I suppose powdered milk could be handy but I'm happy with fresh. I don't know about Venezuela but fresh milk is not often - even ever - available in some places. In Mexico, I don't ever recall seeing it, just one liter cartons of ultrapasturized milk; that too was handy because even though we had a refrigerator, many people did not and the ultrapastureized does not need refigeration until opened and one liter is easy to use up quickly.
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wrote:

I would rather take care of myself rather than some bureaucrat in Washington tell me how to live. Unless the widget was being used as designed and didn't malfunction (particularly in a previously known manner), I should be on my own, thank you.
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On 5/17/2014 9:37 AM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Agreed, but I was making the comparison to many here thinking that MD should be punished for those not wanting to take responsibility for opening the coffee in an unsafe manner.
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She was trying to add cream & sugar.
For the real story: http://segarlaw.com/blog/myths-and-facts-of-the-mcdonalds-hot-coffee- case/ http://tinyurl.com/lx7r6g7
Do note: "Stella Liebeck's lawsuit was turned into a punch-line as many news outlets overlooked the critical facts of the case including the nearly 700 other complaints that McDonalds had received about their hot coffee."
And: "Fact: Stella suffered third-degree burns (the most serious kind of burns) over her lap, which included large portions of her inner thighs and other sensitive areas. She was hospitalized for 8 days and endured several very painful procedures to clean her wounds. She required skin grafts and suffered serious and permanent scarring."
As to the amount: "They initially decided to order the restaurant chain to pay her $160,000 in medical expenses and compensatory damages, as well as an additional $2.7million in punitive damages.
The judge was the one to reduce that amount down to $640,000 before the final payout was settled out of court.
What wasn't commonly reported was the way in which the jury came up with the $2.7million figure.
At the time, McDonalds earned roughly $1.33million per day on coffee sales alone, so the jury felt it was appropriate for them to pay the equivalent of two day's earnings."
Do note that the final settlement was undisclosed but far less than $1M
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On 5/17/2014 10:16 AM, Baxter wrote:

Actually she was removing the lid.        

from your link,
After their order was completed, her grandson pulled the car forward out of the drive-through lane and stopped again to allow Stella to add cream and sugar to her coffee. Stella placed the coffee between her knees so she could use both hands to open the lid and add her sugar. While removing the lid the cup tipped over and poured the entire cup of 190 degree coffee all over her sweatpants, which absorbed the hot liquid and held it against her skin.

Actually the details of these 700 complaints were covered in a more complete article where many of those 700 complaints mentioned burns that were received to parts of the body that coffee is not intended to be administered.
https://www.ttla.com/index.cfm?pg=McDonaldsCoffeeCaseFacts
From 1982 to 1992, McDonald's coffee burned more than 700 people, many receiving severe burns to the genital area, perineum, inner thighs, and buttocks;

This happens pretty often when you pour scalding liquids on yourself.
Try pouring a cup of scalding hot water from you kitchen sink, which is approximately 35% cooler than a normal cup of coffee onto your crotch.
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wrote:

But you also brought up SawStop. ;-)
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On 5/17/2014 2:34 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Yeah, it was entered more to prove an emotional response that affects decision making.
We think that the lady should have been protected from McDonald's, which few like, and a few dislike like SawStop which is providing a product that does protects us.
I suspect that most would believe that the lady got what she deserved had she first gone to congress to get mandated a low temperature regulators on all coffee makers before she was burned.
Both the lady being burned with the McDonald's coffee and the guy cutting his digit off using a Ryobi saw were more at fault than the provider of the instrument of mass destruction. Yet there seems to be almost equal opposition against McDonalds and the saw operator.
Emotion is the guiding factor.
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On 5/17/2014 3:15 PM, Leon wrote:

Arguably, the "guiding factor" in both cases is actually the "Mother of all guiding factors":
Threat of (losing) litigation.
Due to litigation, the temperature of coffee served in McDonald's is now lower, and as a result arguably safer for the drinker overall.
And, the increasing acceptance of SawStop by both corporations and consumers, while not as mature, is unequivocally due in part to litigation, as well as being safer overall for an operator.
Both cases where the destination is arguably more important than the journey.
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On Sat, 17 May 2014 13:11:47 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

Without government's (both federal and state) help, the civil system would be far different. That's the point.
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So you're saying that civil law is outside the purview of the government? Odd. Really odd.

So anything a jury wants to do is just peachy? No rules apply? The government doesn't make the rules?

No, it's not the end of the story. Bring it up again in a month and see. ;-)
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On 5/17/2014 2:43 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

Nope, it is you "saying that".

Again, there is no one other than you "saying that".

Be my guest. Please direct us to a source that states the trial is not over, that a settlement was not reached, and that it is not unarguably and irrevocably concluded.
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You deny government's involvement ("No "government involvement" at all"). That *is* what you're saying.

That is what you said. I just changed the words, not your conclusion.

Oh, good grief.
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On 5/17/2014 3:01 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

IOW, case closed, end of story. :)
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wrote:

I don't "like" either. I like choice and am actually capable of figuring out for myself that coffee is hot (or that my table saw can bite).

Not sure I follow that. She deserved? Burns or a megabuck? Even if she had warned them in a certified letter that coffee was hot, how would that have changed anything? There is a difference between "deserved" and "is responsible for".

I think you're 100% right. Both are responsible for damaging themselves. IMO, no one else is even 1% culpable. ...besides, *maybe* her son.

Of course but I suppose it's emotional to reject all unnecessary government intervention in my life, too. I rather like liberty but also understand you can't have liberty without at least as much responsibility.
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On 5/17/2014 3:28 PM, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

I believe that government is good up to a point. Certainly we would have been invaded with out an army and the fire department seems to be useful. But for the most part most things, beyond defending our borders and maintaining our infrastructure, that the government is attempting, and rather poorly, is a job way way above it's pay grade.
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