Cut off your finger? Sue

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On 3/8/10 3:21 PM, GarageWoodworks wrote:

I wonder if Ryobi's lawyers even asked if he took off the saw guard. I would bet a high end SawStop that he no guard on the saw.
I also wonder if SawStop is paying dudes to cut off their fingers and sue. :-)
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-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
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I've seen a couple of construction workers and a bunch of amateur homeowners crosscutting freehand on these portable table saws. They eventually get what they deserve.
scott
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On 3/8/2010 4:49 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

"Carlos Osorio", a hardwood floor installer ... hmmmmm, wonder if he was fresh from Home Depot?
This guy, nails it:
http://www.protoolreviews.com/news/editorials/safer-table-saw-not-good
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On 3/8/10 4:58 PM, Swingman wrote:

Except for one glaringly wrong statement...
"... SawStop, a technology company that invented a table saw tech that senses capacitance of a finger and immediately stops the blade....have been active in mandating this technology across all table saws. The problem, of course, is that they aren't doing this out of good will - they want to license it and make a fortune. Quite simply, SawStop wants to legislate itself into millions.
While I wholeheartedly agree they shouldn't be trying to "legislate itself into millions," to say they should do it out of good will is absurd.
The act of inventing the technology in and of itself is "good will" enough. They should be able to make a billion dollars from it. As long as their business practices are fair and ethical, no one should complain one iota about it.
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-MIKE-

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As long as...
Having their (legitimate) patent monopoly made into an absolute monopoly by congress (or judge) isn't part of your "as long as", IMO. If they convince everyone that they need the technology, fine, the price will reflect the decision. Doing otherwise will effectively ban table saws until the patent expires.
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On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:05:45 -0600, the infamous
following:

Bingo. Methinks the guys may have been in cahoots with the ambulance chasers in search of monopoly and wealth.
-- Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu
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On 3/8/2010 7:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

I agree, but I think you may have missed the context.
Were you around here when they initially started out? At that point there was nothing but a 'jam it down your throat via government edict' mentality to the inventor's method of gaining acceptance for the technology.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for an "Atlas Shrugged" altruism here. Acutally, I think the SS is a great innovation, and a boon to those having to use a TS for business or hobby ... AAMOF, I would buy one for my next saw given the opportunity.
I just simply don't like the nasty, and obvious, legal extortion machinations that have been involved in getting the technology accepted since the get go.
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On 3/8/10 8:09 PM, Swingman wrote:

To you and KW... I clearly stated, "I wholeheartedly agree they shouldn't be trying to "legislate itself into millions."
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-MIKE-

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On 3/8/2010 8:17 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

Relax, just trying to dipstick your ken of the historical context.
Don't worry, they have NO history, whatsoever, of doing it out of simple "goodwill".
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On 3/8/10 8:32 PM, Swingman wrote:

If they were trying to lobby for legislation to mandate the use of their product, at least they have a solution to a real problem, not the made-up BS that a certain former politician is trying to push down our throats to pad his pockets. :-)
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On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:32:41 -0600, the infamous Swingman
Egad! What'll Barbie think of her Ken being dipsticked?
(strange waking moments from Oregon)
-- Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu
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Correction to the 'revisionist history' in the above paragraph.
Sawstop _first_ tried to license to all the major table-saw manufacturers. _NO_ONE_ expressed any interest.
*Then*, and only then, did they go the route of trying to get the use of the device made mandatory by government action.
When -that- failed, they went into manufacture for themselves.

You can't buy it as an 'add-on'. it has to be designed in/built in as part of the original design.
It is subject to mis-fire under certain situations, The owners manual expressly _tells_ you to disable this 'safety feature' if doing that kind of cutting.
It's also fairly costly 'in use'. If the device fires, the saw is not usable until a replacement cartridge is installed. *and* the saw- blade is probably ruined. 'Cheap insurance' if it actually saves a finger. *REALLY* expensive if it was a 'false alarm'. Especially if you _don't_ have a 'spare' on hand.
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On 3/10/2010 9:24 PM, Robert Bonomi wrote:

Nothing "revisionist" about it ... the manufacturers at the time rightly considered the licensing fees, or otherwise face threats of future legal action, as little more than "extortion and monopolistic", which has indeed turned out to be the case.
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Swingman wrote:

Let's run the numbers: Say the inventor figures he should get $1 million per year for his invention.
He calculates 100,000 table saws are sold each year, so he needs ten bucks for each saw sold. Assuming half of the saw people won't go for the deal, that means he needs $20 royalty per saw sold.
Further assuming half the saws sold are under $200 retail ($100 out the factory door), that means the saw manufacturers are looking at a 20% price increase on their finished product.
I can't imagine a tool manufacturer taking that big a competitive hit intentionally.
Further, that's only if the inventor was $1 million per year. He may need many times that to amortize development costs.
He needs to "generalize" his invention, making it available for other devices such as washing machines, garbage disposals*, grinders, lawnmowers**, or anything else that goes 'round and 'round. Probably not needed on a clock's second hand.
--
* How this would work on a chicken bone, I do not know.
** Your lawnmower really needs to come to a quick stop when it encounters a
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On 3/11/2010 6:51 AM, HeyBub wrote:

Actually, and IIRC, he was seeking 8 percent licensing/royalties from manufacturers on the wholesale price of each saw sold.
What surprises me is the number of naive apologists who don't see each development that has played out thus far, from the original attempt to secure licensing fees as above, to the attempts at securing government mandate, to manufacture of a saw with the device, to the ongoing litigation, as the carefully planned legal strategy (extortion, some would say) that it is.
"Those who have eyes ...."
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On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:58:27 -0600, the infamous Swingman

Bwaaaaaaaaaaahahahahaha! My thoughts ran that direction, too.

Yeah, good article.
-- Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing. This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu
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On 08 Mar 2010 22:49:57 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

Some of us would rather be retain possession of all our digits - fingers are more useful than lawsuits.
I have some small stock (1x2) that needs to be cut to length (maybe 5 mnutes?) but it can wait until morning when I'm not fighting a sinus headache..
John
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On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:14:34 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@jecarter.us wrote:

...I don't use a guard on my Skilsaw(s), because that's how I was taught and have vast experience with. I don't let anyone else use my Skilsaw(s) unless they're equally experienced. Sam Maloof used his bandsaw in the same manner, and cautioned his audience similarly, too. Times change, though, and soon enough there will be fewer and fewer of us Dinos...but you'll be able to use my Powermatic 66 *long* after I'm gone...cut and count will be around for awhile yet...
AFA Mr. Osario...too bad you took that first puff...
gc
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http://bit.ly/bUTXOP
Suing after you cut your finger off is dumb. Recently I find myself full of fear every time I want to cut a piece of wood on my saw. I'm a nervous wreck and the stress is not good for me. I'm going to sue so they put a flesh detecting device on my saw and enough money for a relaxing vacation.
Get my lawyer on the phone.
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Have a beer. I'll sooth your nerves.

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