Crown moulding: what is the rule of thumb for sizing it to a room?

[Henry St.Pierre]

There was always Teddy. I really hope Senator Clinton can get it back for us.

[Henry St.Pierre]

Which way is the grain going to run on the shelves; horizontal or vertical, or maybe diagonal? Hank (just wondering)

[Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT]

Sun, Sep 28, 2003, 12:39am [e-mail] (Henry=A0St.Pierre) who asks: Which way is the grain going to run on the shelves; horizontal or vertical, or maybe diagonal? Hank (just wondering)

It makes a difference?

JOAT If history repeats itself, I should think we can expect the same thing again.

- Terry Venables

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 26 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.

[Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT]

Sat, Sep 27, 2003, 10:49pm (EDT+4) [e-mail] (Bay=A0Area=A0Dave) laments: why do you get me confused with folks who asked about what color to paint their shops??

Hard to say. Being a newbie at woodworking, I like to find out about standards, where they exist. Why chide me for that???

If you will recall, you are the same guy that compared working from plans to paint-by-numbers.

As far as "keeping track" of the miscreants, that's not quite accurate. I go into the filter screen to see how filled up the log file is.

Different point of view, I guess, it looks like keeping score to me.

I love to see lots of crap there, knowing it doesn't show up on the Wreck.

Been a long time since I've worked with computers, but wouldn't it still be there, and you just not seeing it?

To ME you appear to have a sense of humor.

Oh, I do really, but few people have similar backgrounds, and usually don't understand it.

To a stranger he'd appear grouchy, but he could be in a perfectly good mood and crack jokes, but he APPEARED (facial expression) to be really grumpy. I can see past the grumpy exterior.

Uh, Dave? I'm usually always smiling, the picture on my web page is a prime example, and am easy going. But, when you get past my so-called grumpy exterior, you reach the guy who keeps a loaded handgun in the house. Easily accessible.

It's too bad you've formed a negative opinion of me due to a some misunderstandings.

Dave, Dave, Dave. You say you don't work with plans, and then you'll ask some question you should be able to figure out on your own. Like what direction the grain on a privacy panel should run. You're not the only one. There are plenty more out there who could solve their own problems, including looking in their local hardware shore before asking here to find something. You all need to spend your time on the throne thinking, instead of just vegetating.

I've got nothing against you, but you're just so confusing. I've said it before - to you too - and I'll say it again: Very basic, fully covered under, he who pays, calls the tune. If it's your money, your project, the proper technique is, any damn way you feel like doing it. As far as aesthetics go, same thing, your money, your project, paint it any damn color you want.

JOAT If history repeats itself, I should think we can expect the same thing again.

- Terry Venables

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 26 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.

[Bay Area Dave]

I thought we'd fully discussed working from plans. did I not say that I wrote the question in a provocative manner to elicit some discussion? did I also not agree that some use of plans finally made sense to me, but not just the blind following to the letter of someone else's plans for every project a WW did? remember that? remember I changed my point of view. YOu are bringing up old history when you mention my attitude towards plans. I wanted to know what others thought, and most of their responses said that they use plans "to some extent". Please don't hit me over the head with the "plan" thing any more. That's out of date.

Next point: What on earth is wrong with asking a very BASIC question about grain direction on a wood working NG? I DO know already that cathedrals point up. But I don't know which way grain is supposed to run on a wide piece of veneered plywood used on various parts of a desk. Why do you attack me personally when I ask those questions. Seems quite rude and nasty to me. I'm at a loss wondering why no one ever steps up to the plate to harass you as I get harassed if I ever get short with somebody.

What is the point in telling me you have a loaded weapon??? So? Lot's of folks keep guns around. Did I tell you I've got a loaf of bread in the kitchen? It's about as relevant to this discussion.

dave

Jack-of-all-trades - JOAT wrote:

[Rico]

Dave, the world is a mirror. What you see when you look out is what the world sees when it looks at you.

Your questions are usually reasonable. The types of responses you get are in direct response to your history here. If you would change your online 'tude a bit, you would get very different responses. I suspect that would start after a fairly short period of time.

[PM6564]

Like when they show that bottoms belong in drawers?

[Bay Area Dave]

Hey, that stapled-on-the-bottom-edge drawer bottom is holding up fine, I'll have you know! :) Besides I got an extra 1/2" depth in that drawer. Sure glad I didn't have to make 4 more drawer sides; it took quite a while doing the dovetails.

dave

PM6564 wrote:

[Morgans]

Two things to say. Filters. Blocked senders list. There are plenty of people to read, without putting up with a*s holes.

-- Jim in NC

[Bay Area Dave]

Jim,

Rest assured I've got the most egregious miscreants tucked away in electronic never-never land. They've got plenty of friends, so they can do without my endorsement.

dave

Morgans wrote:

[Patrick Olguin]

Bay Area Dave wrote in message news:...

Oh, I don't know... that you get your underwear in a wad anytime someone looks at you sideways?

You got a serious answer from Tom, and unfortunately you were so busy getting ruffled, you huffed right past my actual advice.

Since you asked about the rule(s) of thumb for sizing moulding to a room, it sounded like you were looking for overall information on design and proportion.

I suggested a visit to the LEEbrary (see, the LEEbrary is a reference to an old-time rec.normer named Lee Ward, and his favorite solution to any woodworking problem was to head out to the library, but then one day (that's a 24-hour period, approximating the time it takes this planetary spheroid, third from the Sun, sometimes known as Earth, to complete one revolution on its axis - though it appears that our sun, also known as Sol, rises in the east and sets in the west, the Earth in fact is spinning. The actual velocity of the rotation depends on the degrees of latitude north or south of the equator. For instance, at the equator the velocity is approximately 1041 mph. At Cape Canaveral, the velocity is a bit less, at 937mph. This rotational velocity is the reason while vehicles intended for orbit or deep space, are launched to the east - to take advantage of this added velocity. As a matter of fact, this IS rocket science. DAMHIKT) someone thought that LEEbrary was funny, and so it stuck, and that's how it became the LEEbrary, and so when I said LEEbrary, I was using an old rec.norm joke - rec.norm is a reference to this Usenet newsgroup known as rec.woodworking, but another guy, Patrick Leach, a rather confrontational, irreverent, broad-shouldered Irish bastard who knows a lot about tools - handtools in particular. One day (we've covered that already, refer to earlier definition) he dubbed this newsgroup: rec.norm, an obvious reference to the bulk of the traffic being discussion of power tools, the favorite of Norm Abram - host of the New Yankee Workshop; Norm doesn't actually own the tools, the show is shot in the producer's shop, a gentleman known as Russ Morash. Though his show does lean toward power tool usage, Norm often employs hand tools. Norm is apparently a very nice man, and I even have autographed pictures of him although I don't know where they are at this moment, my inkling being they're located at my ex-wife's house, a house I used to co-own and had done many improvements, most of them uncompensated. I have no proof that's she's attempting to hide the autographed pictures and sell them, but I digress. Note that it is Abram, not Abrams, Abraham, Abrahams, Ahab, Abib, Alisha, Alicia. Elijah, Elisha, Armand nor Armageddon. It's Abram, always will be Abram and any misspelling is not, nor every shall be acceptable. And so I was using this established reference to a library (LEEbrary) - a public repository of books, magazines, Internet access, newspapers, the Reader's Guide to Perdiodical Literature, videos, 16mm film and other media. The assumption being that a good library (previously defined) might hold resources, namely books on architecture (there are many periods, you might want to stick to one period per the room, my wife's favorites are Art Deco and Art Nouveau, although she's also a huge fan of American A&C, Greene&Greene, Frank Lloyd Wright - not to be confused with Andrew Lloyd Webber and most of the Stickleys) where there is a good chance that at least several of the books will provide guidelines, a.k.a. "rules of thumb," for proportion and design when it comes to architectural millwork (the topic under which crown moulding falls) and that perhaps if you were to read several of these books or at least the pertinent chapters, you might glean the information you so desire.

That's what I meant when I typed (beginning on the home-row of a QWERTY keyboard):

If that isn't profound enough for you. Tough. Now leave me alone, I've got a kickball game to return to. Oh yeah - and don't call me names, you big weenie!

Sincerely, O'Deen

[Tom Watson]

The "T" was crossed The cannons roared The small ship sank With all aboard

(uh oh, I seem to have gone from BAD to verse)

Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania

[JOAT]

I just wish to Hell you'd learn to start giving some details in your responses.

JOAT If history repeats itself, I should think we can expect the same thing again.

- Terry Venables

Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT Web Page Update 30 Sep 2003. Some tunes I like.

[Bay Area Dave]

what can I say but :) You've definitely got a way with words, and the patience to put 'em "out there". I'm waiting for a local library to be built, actually. Every time I drive by it, I think it'll open any day. But, hey this is San Jose, where everything takes too long to build, esp the Highway 87 improvements. sigh...when they open I'll take a peek. I'll tell them you've sent me for a book on proportions. no, not Biblical proportions; just everyday proportions...

I must have been REALLY cranky by the time I responded to you previous post! My bad! that's as close as I gonna approach an apology...

dave

Patrick Olgu>

[Bay Area Dave]

LOL! good one!

dave

Tom Wats> >

[Tom Watson]

Thanks, Dave. I was goofing around on that one but not so in my initial reply to your question.

Palladio goes into exquisite (some would say, excruciating) detail on the relationship of the entablature to the base. His discussion is particularly about columns but your wall is, in fact, a column for the purposes of the discussion.

What looks good to us is not something that springs, unbidden, from our innards but is, in fact, a response to a transmitted paradigm, communicated to us over literally thousands of years of architectural history.

We are the recipients of a shared historical sensibility in the regard of architectural elements and their balance. "What seems right", is not, as some have expressed, a matter of personal whim, but is the result of an osmotic transference from the great good of public architecture in the past to our current, I would say weakened, state as thinkers within a tradition.

It may seem, on the face of it, to be a wasteful exercise, this study of our architectural antecedents but, I assure you it is not.

Even in that most venal expression of detail, the clamshell molding, there is a wealth of history, albeit criminally misunderstood.

Proportion is both art and science. Witness the discipline imposed on Western architectural thought by the concept of the Golden Mean. We know that it works, as it holds sway throughout our culture, from the sizing of movie screens to the proportions of the credit cards we often use to gain access to them.

If Palladio is a point of reference, does that not beg the question of his own referents?

Certainly to the Romans, but did they not merely ape and modify the Greeks?

Beyond the Greeks?

Some scholars argue that there must be an organic underpinning to our architectural lineage. They say that early public architecture mimed the proportions of certain trees. I wonder.

Shortly after assuming the upright posture, man built shelters. As his abilities grew, so did his buildings. When he had achieved a level of society beyond that of the merely familial, he engaged in public architecture. I would argue that the original concepts of proportionality are organic, but not based on trees, so much as on man, himself. Look at the famous drawing of Leonardo DaVinci and the proportions of his Man. Take those proportions and apply them to those expressed in the concepts of Palladio, who was really only a codifier of historical precedent.

I know, you just wanted to know a "rule of thumb" regarding the relationship of your existing baseboard to your proposed crown molding. "Rule of Thumb" might turn out to be not such a bad expression of the problem. Not merely "rule of thumb" but the relationship between head (capo) and foot (pedestal).

Of course, we all rush headlong through that which does not seem so involving, to get to that which seems so much to be so but, isn't life more interesting when "why" is not merely a homonym for the twenty fifth letter of the alphabet?

Regards, Tom Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania

[Bay Area Dave]

Having read your every word, I feel entitled to an honorary degree in ...well...SOMETHING! Archie texture? Damn, you've got a way with words. Everybody else: step away from your keyboards!

So...I should hang the larger crown? :)

dave

Tom Wats> >

[Henry St.Pierre]

Spent a bit of time in San Jose in the seventies and they had many libraries (I recall three at least). There was even a huge bridge and ramps over the freeway that went nowhere (so I thought at the time). You can find a library in the area if you try. Musing on the seventies, I wonder if "The Saint James Infirmary" is still in Mt. View or if Bobby MaGee's is still there out towards Gilroy. Committed major fun and sins in both. Still tryin' to sin, Hank