Comparison of two hand saws, and questions

Page 1 of 2  

I love hand saws, and I cannot afford them, so I find them for $5 - $7 in thrift shops and some from eBay, and have them sharpened, As yet to learn the skill I bought the Veritas Jointer/edger and the 8" file for it (also bought some other stuff from LV too).
I struck it lucky a few times with saws so far, the two best are a Disston D-23 (big wow you say?) straight back with an apple wood handle and 9 ppi, last made in 1928. http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/d23page.html
Also a Simonds #10-1/2 skew back and 8 ppi with a thicker blade and wider at the butt, beech handle. Seen at the bottom of theis page: http://www.geocities.com/sawnutz/simonds/handsaws.htm Except there is a difference from mine and the photo image, mine has the badge in the middle, not at the bottom. Maybe it's a later make.
Both blades have new sharpenings, the Disston has been used several times as such and the Simonds only one cross cut through a DF 4x4.
(digital caliper and metric conversion software)
Disston D-23 blade thickness at the butt: 0.037" or 0.94mm (MC: 0.9398mm) blade thickness at the tip: 0.027.5 or 0.70mm (MC: 0.6858mm) Set width at the butt, to both sides: 0.057" or 1.45mm (MC: 1.4478mm) Set width at the tip, to both sides: 0.048.5" or 1.24mm (MC: 1.2192mm) This blade actually tapers from thickness to thinness from back to tip...Anyone think it's from wear, or engineered that way?
Simonds #10-1/2 blade thickness at the butt: 0.038" or 0.97mm (MC: 0.9652mm) blade thickness at the tip: 0.035.5" or 0.85mm (MC: 0.889mm) Set width at the butt, to both sides: 0.062" or 1.58mm (MC: 1.5748mm) Set width at the tip, to both sides: 0.066" or 1.68mm (MC: 1.6764mm)
If anyone can apply this, the Disston cuts like a hot knife through butter, very sweetly and smoothly. Whereas the Simonds cuts like a disaster to be dealt with, it gets stuck, hard to start, very rough, with the new sharpening used once. Can anyone tell me why this is? I feel betrayed.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
AAvK wrote:

I love handsaws too.
I have at least 6 D-23s, several D-8s. About 40 or 50 saws all together.,,55?
The Disston saws are absolutely engineered to perform. Just because they're old doesn't mean they are not up to the quality of engineering available today. Disston had their own steel mill and made blades for every body. Warranted Superiors are a Second line of the Disston company. The Disstons actually used to advertise their "Taper Grind Saws" as less likely to hang up in the cut. It works for me.
Tom in KY, with 34 saws hanging on my bedroom walls right now. My kids call it the Cracker Barrel bedroom.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net wrote:

The only handsaw I like better than the old Disstons are the old Atkins "Silver Steel" saws - the cut just as well as a Disston and they seem to be much more resistant to rust. I've never found one with more than a very light partial coat of rust. Sometimes the only way I can identify a Disston is by the medallion, the blade is total rust.
--
It's turtles, all the way down

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Larry Blanchard wrote:

I've got one Atkins saw. I'd have a bunch more if they were more plentiful around here. If you find yourself swamped and can't around your shop for all of the Atkins saws, I'll take a few off of your hands. But Only if I have to. ..please.
Tom in KY, maybe not totally brand loyal :-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Square Eye wrote:

Sorry, they're not that common around here either. I've got a grand total of two :-).
I'm a sucker for old saws at estate sales :-). I keep saying I'm going to sharpen them all and sell them on Ebay, but I never seem to find the time.
--
It's turtles, all the way down

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Hooboy! I gots one of each! Belonged to my late grandfather.
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston



Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Those are prize possesions, not made anymore. If you sell them, the money will not last as long as the saws will. I won't sell mine!
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

If you feel that way about them compared to the great Disstons, I'll keep a lookout for one or two. Thanks for the impressions.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
AAvK wrote:

A little shift in topic. I think I asked here before, but I'll try again. I have a handsaw marked "Olympic" on the blade. I don't have it handy but it also says stuff like "taper ground" and "handmade". The medallion says "warranted superior" but with an empty middle - no emblem.
I thought it might be a private label made by Disston, but then I found a saw I know was made in England and it has the same type medallion. So "warranted superior" seems to have been a common phrase.
I can't find "Olympic" in the handsaw history book and the owner of one of the handsaw websites had never heard of it either.
Anyone know anything about Olympic saws?
--
It's turtles, all the way down

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 10:04:11 -0800, Larry Blanchard opined:

I think "warranted superior" just means "New! and Improved!" IIRC, the Disstonian Institute website mentions the phrase.
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
wreck20051219 at spambob.net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Larry Blanchard wrote:

The English Disston connection is Sandvick, check my spelling, They still produce a saw somewhat comparable to an old Disston. The price reflects the quality. *Probably* the best saw on the market right now.
Tom in KY, saw nut.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Squarei4dtoolguy wrote:

Ha-ha-ha, Sandvik.,, yeah, that's it. SANDVIK.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sandvik is now Bahco, and what they make are only modern tech "hard point" saws that cannot be sharpened, just like Stanley: http://extranet.bahco.com/CONndc.asp?Save_UID=1&wp=&GotoCat=true&cmbLanguage  I would like to see the saw you're talking about.
On the other hand, Lynx makes taper ground blades, but who knows what the RC is. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
AAvK wrote:

See how old I am?

It would probably be about 20 years old. My further research (after running my mouth too much with brain only half firing) came up the same.
I wonder how many manufacturers were smart enough to pick up some of Disston's old lore and tout their saws to be the best made? The Sandviks I've had the pleasure to use, looked just like the plastic handled Disston saws, like the D-95, wich I only have one of.
Tom in KY, too quick on the draw again.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Squarei4dtoolguy wrote:

I know about Sandvik, but that's not what I've got. Mine is from an old manufacturer that went out of business about a hundred years ago :-). Made other things than saws, cutlery IIRC.
--
It's turtles, all the way down

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Larry Blanchard wrote:

OK, a followup. I was out in the shop and checked my English saw. The blade is engraved (or more likely stamped) with "Jos Haywood & Co" in an arc with "Sheffield" below it. To the left of this is "improved" and to the right is "cast steel". The saw has the old split nuts, so it's probably quite old. Disston and, IIRC, most other American manufacturers quit using split nuts about 1875. I doubt if England was too far ahead or behind.
--
It's turtles, all the way down

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 13 Jan 2006 08:49:36 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net wrote:

I'm not so sure the "quality of engineering today" is a great comparison for hand tools.
Today's average hand tools are typically "value engineered" versions of old tools, made with crappy materials as quickly as possible. Today's good and excellent hand tools are typically based on old designs and made with care.
Even Lie-Nielsen's "new" line of chisels are based on old Stanley products.
Saws, chisels, and planes really aren't rocket science, but it does cost a decent sum to make them right! <G>
Barry
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Ba r r y wrote:

Agreed, a roll of steel cut into the shape of saw blades does not scream of quality to me. The engineering now is non-existent on the final product. The engineering is in the manufacturing process, eliminating some foreigner's job :-)
Also, the handles, heh; used to be a rip saw had a handle at least 1" thick. Now you see 3/4" or less.
Tom in KY, when I think about saws, I think, my old saw can kick your new saws a$$.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have this little great neck hand saw with an 18"-20" blade, and the sharpness wears down much too quickly. The steel must RC 42-48, rediculous. So nowadays they use the same rolls of steel, only when the blade is done they use "impulse hardening" to compensate. It's a waste of metal and wood, and there ought to be a law against it.
Ain't nuthin' like cast sheet spring steel of RC 60! This was all American perfection.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I also have a later 30's-40's D-23 with the beech handle, 11 ppi but it's got a lot of "rust rise" mounds. Sad.

I don't think anything is that good as far as western saws.

I can see why it works well, widening the kerf on the push stroke, and releasing on the pull. It makes it entirely natural.

Too cool!
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.