Hand Plane Comparison: Stanley vs. Veritas

[Mike H.]

I'm wanting to purchase my first real hand plane (smooth plane), but I don't have the $ for a Lie-Neilson (the Cadillac?). Therefore, I was going to get a Veritas. After reading reviews and shopping online (and according to the

2005 Tool Guide from Taunton), the Veritas planes appear to be the best value for the money.

But the Stanley planes *look* descent enough, and are about half the price of a Veritas. And I have seen photos of Stanleys in professional wood workers' "favorite hand tool" selections. So I was wondering if anyone out there might have first hand experience in providing a side-by-side comparison of the Stanley vs. Veritas hand planes (in particular smooth planes). Amazon had a nasty review for the #4 Stanley, but the fellow didn't say why it was such a horrible hand plane.

So what's the difference? Please help. TIA.

-Mike

[Patriarch]

"Mike H." wrote in news:wMOdneXgzalBbk [e-mail]:

The difference is that the Stanleys in most woodworkers' shops were made in an era when Stanley cared about handplanes more than garage door openers.

The designs are strong, and have been around since your great grandfather was a boy, or longer. They are, in fact, the same designs from which the Lie Nielsen and to some extent, the Veritas, planes are derived.

Here's the difference: The Veritas from Lee Valley works, right out of the box, requiring only that you clean off the preseratives and give the blade a light honing. A Stanley, or Record, or Anant, or Groz/Rockler, is going to require that you spend more time with it. Within the last 6 months or so, David Charlesworth did an excellent article, I think in Fine Woodworking, on tuning up a modern plane. With those efforts, he, and pretty much everyone else, gets the modern plane up to acceptable levels.

If you don't want to fiddle (fettle), then buy the Veritas, and go to work. I particularly like the LV Low Angle smoother (watch the wrap)

bevel up configuration has some real advantages.

Now, if you want drop dead gorgeous, all your friends will drool, then order youself up one of these babies:

they work exceedingly well, too. But maybe not for your first one.

Welcome to the quiet side!

Patriarch

[AAvK]

Veritas has superior carbon steel blades and wood knobs and totes, bodies made of a ductile iron that will not crack, and they are ready to use out of the box. Stanley's blades are a very "basic" quality of thin carbon steel that will need sharpening more often and wear down faster. They have plastic totes and knobs, bodies made of basic iron that will* crack upon landing hard enough. The Stanley body castings are not* machined prescision, so the sole and sides must be tuned_to_square before it is accurate enough for use, THIS is a LOT of hard work. Tuning being another lesson. A new Stanley can be made to work beautifully after tuning, as well as any plane, new wood totes and knobs and better blades can be added but it isn't supremely cost effective considering the work of tuning. Even any new blade must be tuned, and you must be set-up for that. Veritas are highly praised for their quality of manufacture and usability, right out of the box. I don't have one yet ;-( so, Mr Lee, I want a new L-A-B-P for this promo...?

Alex

[Big Rob]

Buy a vintage stanley plane on ebay. If you're just looking for a basic model you could probably get a Stanley #4 or #5 for less than $10. You might have to buy a new blade though. That's another $20-30. Get one from Ron Hock. The old planes are far superior to anything Stanley or Veritas make today.

Or better yet buy a wooden plane from Knight Toolworks (knight-toolworks.com) or Gordon (hntgordon.com).

Or even better still, make your own wooden plane. I have several home made planes that work beautifully.

Mike H. wrote:

fellow

[Alan Bierbaum]

Comments interspersed below: I use old planes and new planes; my "go to" plane is the Veritas low angle smoother ( I have, and use, the HA blade also).

[Tyke]

If you want to see reviews, start looking in this UK forum.

you dig around you will find a section which has reviews of planes. I cannot find the link to this section.

One of the reviewers owns L-N as well as Veritas. I am not sure about Stanley.

The typical response about a new Stanley vs a Veritas appears to be : a) The Veritas are flat and true out of the box. A Stanley needs to be flattened - if you desire your plane soles to be flat. Some folks do not care. I bought a new Record #5 about 2 years ago and had to spend the time to get its sole flat. b) Quality of the blade. A Stanley has a normal steel blade, which will hone to a great edge, but will not keep the edge for long. The Veritas blade is a harder alloy which will keep its edge much longer.

I have a hand-me-down Stanley 9-1/2 and bought an old Stanley #3 from a friend. Both of these were not flat. The #3 was used by a carpenter for all his life and so even had significant wear scratches on the sole.

I have spent a lot of time tuning these tools. The 9-1/2 is now flat and has a recently sharpened, but original blade. I have considered getting a upgraded blade, but the ones I have seen have a 5/8 slot, whereas my plane being US built has 7/16 slot. The 9-1/2 is now working acceptable well for the light duty it is used for.

The #3 is another story. I do not have the sole as flat as desired perhaps due to the amount of wear over the years. I will have to spend another hour or two to get this to my desire.

The blade has been sharpened, but even after all my work, the Record cuts much better than the #3, and most people claim the Record blades are not very good.

Neither the Record or the #3 work as well as a recent Veritas purchase of the Low Angle Block Plane. Even without any honing the Veritas cut with ease.

The workmanship on the Veritas is very good. I prefer the ductile iron body over cast iron, just in case this is ever nudged off the bench onto my concrete floor.

Some people feel the Stanleys of 1950's or before are superior to present day. This may be the case, but I expect a Veritas to hold its own compared to any equivalent Stanley.

Dave Paine.

[Bob]

A vintage stanley for $10????? When is the last time you shopped on ebay? Nothing has been going for less than $50 for months, as I've watched it. I must be missing something.

Bob

[Nate Perkins]

"Mike H." wrote in news:wMOdneXgzalBbk [e-mail]:

...

Pretty much all of the Veritas planes are really well made. You won't be sorry with one.

Modern Stanley planes are really not very good. The castings are inferior, the tolerances in the blade and adjustments are far worse than previous Stanleys. They can be tuned to work, sure, but then again so can the Anant planes.

If you go with a Stanley, get a vintage one off of Ebay. Some of the old ones are very good. I have a Sweetheart Stanley #3 (ca 1920?) with a Hock blade that is my favorite.

What plane are you thinking of getting? IMHO the most useful is a low angle block plane, followed by a shoulder plane, a scraper plane, and a #3/ #4 smoother and a #5 jack.

Hope that helps.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

I own three planes, all bought new. Stanley, Knight, Veritas. I will never buy a new Stanley plane. It is OK now, but took me a few hours to get it right.

[AAvK]

Yep, $10 - $12 4's and 5's fly by aaaaaaallllllllllll day long. My #5 was $9.99 and it is a beaut! My old type 19 #4 was $7.99, needs a bit of tuning on the sole and sides.

Alex

[George]

Two major points which recommend the Veritas smoother are room for the hand at the handle, and ease of throat adjustment. They will always be there on the Veritas, as will the lateral limit adjustments. They will never be there on the Stanley.

[Ba r r y]

Sure. Some OLD Stanley's work very well. Most will need at least some work. A Hock iron will hold an edge better than any original. I've purchased a few Stanley's, tuned them, added good irons and chip breakers, and ended up spending nearly what a Veritas planes costs.

Veritas planes come close to ready to go, except for a bit of Cosmolene that needs to be cleaned off, and maybe a very quick touch up of the edge. The bottoms are flat, the sides are square, the irons have flat backs, etc...

Veritas planes also are designed with really nice adjusting mechanisms, adjustable throat openings and a frog that supports the high quality blade better than a typical Stanley. Lee Valley also has satisfaction guarantee. I doubt they get many planes back.

Plastic knobs, sides that aren't square, a sole that isn't flat, and a blade that won't hold an edge. What more could you want in a hand plane?

I don't use standard bench planes as much as some folks might, as I use machines for grunt work. My Veritas low angle block and medium shoulder planes are constantly in use. I have some pre-1950 Stanley #5's and a #4 with Hock irons. I put a ton of time into them to get them working well, but they still don't have the mechanism or adjustable mouth of the Veritas versions.

FWIW, once you use a good shoulder plane, you'll be amazed at how much time can be saved cutting tenons a scootch oversize and custom trimming them during the dry fit. A swipe or two, and a perfect fit is yours!

Trust me, a good plane is poetry in motion, a new Stanley is a doorstop.

Barry

[Ba r r y]

The best I've ever done on eBay for a COMPLETE Stanley #4 or 5 is about $40 + shipping. None of them were all that great when they arrived, with pitting, filed mouths, cracks. etc...

After a Hock iron and shipping, I typically spent a total of $80 to $100, and then faced HOURS of work to get a Stanley cranked up.

I wish I had your luck!

Barry

[Ba r r y]

I forgot all about those nice set screws!

Barry

[Larry Blanchard]

And if you want a #8 jointer plane, used is the only choice you have. Unless one has come out recently that I don't know about.

[Big Rob]

I don't know much about Veritas planes, so I can't comment on them. But as far as a new Stanley versus a pre 1920 Stanley, I would go with the vintage plane every time -- even if it takes a weekend of tuning it up. You'll probably end up spending that much time in frustration with a new Stanley. The only exception I can think of is Stanley's small, low angle block plane -- I can't remember the model number off the top of my head. It's not that bad for about $35 -- but be prepared to spend some time flattening the bottom. I just replaced mine with a Lie Neilson and the LN is much nicer of course.

If you've got a drill press and a band saw or table saw, I would seriously consider making your own plane. It's really not that difficult, although it does take some time. Check out David Fink's (sp?) book. There's nothing like making your own tool. I've made four of them in the past six months -- 45% and 50% smoothers, jack and shoulder. My neighbor thinks I'm nuts. : - )

Nate Perk>

previous

[rcook5]

It's a lot easier to make a tool look good than it is to make it perform well. The Stanleys look good -- if you don't look too closely. They can even be made to perform well -- but it usually takes an awful lot of work.

I have some Stanley planes as well as a Veritas. The best way to think of the Stanleys is as a plane kit. The parts are all there but it takes a lot of work to turn it into the real thing. By the time you get done flattening the sole, fooling with the frog, etc., you'll have a lot of time into the plane. By the time you get it right you will have learned a tremendous amount about planes as well.

If this is your first plane, I would strongly suggest spending the money for the Veritas. It may still take some tuning, but you'll be making shavings a lot sooner and you'll be a lot happier.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets fly with a club. -- John W. Cambell Jr.

[DaveR]

Mike:

You could also try the inexpensive wooden Planes - Taiwanese style from Lee Valley.

They are very good and very inexpensive. They are much better than a new cheaply made plane.

I have handled the new Lee Valley (Veritas) planes at their store - and if you can afford them they are great value.

Mike H. wrote:

[Larry Jaques]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:13:50 -0600, "Mike H." calmly ranted:

You'll find that most of us (those without several satchels of cash) have all bought used Stanleys which are up to around 100 years old and all of us love them to death.

The newer models aren't as well made as the oldies.

Shininess. LN, Veritas, and new Stanleys are all quite shiny.

Another possibility for you is to buy one of Steve Knight's smoothers. It's a wood plane with a thickarse blade. They cost less than Veritas, too (by a whopping $4 and s/h.) Look for them on Ebay or at his website at

. I own a whole bevy of his planes and like them, using the smoother a lot.

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[Cubby]

I went the ebay route myself only for reasons of cash on hand (or lack thereof!). I've got pretty much No. 2 through No. 8 bench planes. Yes, they take a bit of work to get tuned but I learned more about a plane that way than if I had just bought one. A few hours truing the sole, cleaning it up, and sharpening has yielded me great planes. I highly recommend looking at Patrick's Blood and Gore (don't have the link with me at the moment) as it'll tell you how to identify a particular plane and makes recommendations as to what year's were best.

That being said, I always wonder when I get my LV or LN catalog.... Cheers, cc