Card scraper success!

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I have finally been successful in not using sandpaper prior to finishing. On my entertainment center, I have managed to use just planes and a card scraper to prepare the door panels and one of the back panels for finish (that's as much finishing as I have done thus far).
What turned the corner for me? Bagging the Sandvik scraper I had been trying to use and getting a Lie Nielson card scraper (cost me all of $8.00, I think). I've struggled with trying to put a hook on the Sandvik for years and was only moderately successful sometimes. The Sanvik managed to gall my burnisher more than the burnisher managed to turn a hook on the Sandvik. I have now successfully turned a hook on the Lie Nielson scraper more than several times and it seems to be consistent without having to use extraordinary effort to get the hook. I was told that LN uses the same material as they use on their backsaws for their scraper stock. The material is much more flexible than the Sandvik (easier on the fingers during use), and as I said, turns *so* much easier. The hook seems to be pretty durable, I've been able to do quite a bit of scraping on a single sharpening of the 4 edges. It seems plywood scrapes mostly dust, regardless of hook age, but test runs on hardwoods return small shavings.
I'm a happy camper.
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<snip>
It is a thing of beauty, is it not?
I bought TWO SETS of LN scapers, so I could keep enough of them prepared to get me through a largish project. The Sandviks now get sharpened up to loan to other folks...
Now I just need to get on of those special leather envelopes to keep them in... ;-)
BTW, making up a small jig to hold them in whilst burnishing made life easier. Several of the magazines had good articles recently.
Welcome to the quiet side.
Patriarch
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Okay that's enough convincing.. Been thinking about it for a while. I'm heading to LV today... But I have a question... And it might be a stupid question.
They say - sand to XXX grit depening on the finish being used for penetration etc. Is this an issue when scraping.?
Pat
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:56:25 GMT, patriarch

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Nope! The scraper actually cuts like a knife, leaving the pores of the wood open. You should get a deeper more dimensional finish. max

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Thanks Max... I picked up one "just to experiment".

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calmly ranted:

Careful! They're like potato chips. Betcha can't buy just one.
-- Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud. ---- http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
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It's not a stupid question. A scraped finish looks very different than a sanded one, and may or may not be what you want/need on any given piece. Not all woods take well to scraping, and others really 'shine'. (Sorry)
Cherry and maple are two that I think are well suited. Oak is another story. The nature of the grain plays a large part. Pine refuses to be scraped, or so I've been told.
You definitely will want to do a sample piece, paying attention to edge/face/end grain, and completing your finishing processes. A generalized answer just wouldn't do your question justice. And the look doesn't suit all projects by any means.
BTW, you may want to purchase the two scraper set. The different thicknesses suit different work patterns.
Patriarch
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:21:40 GMT, patriarch

I haven't found that to be the case with Spruce, but you do need to be careful about the grain direction. If you try to scrape against the grain at all, it's pretty easy to cause tearout at the edges. If you're careful, though, it will really make the grain flash nicely.

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
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Hi Patriarch,
I picked up the LV 0.6mm Super-Hard Milled. That seemed to be the middle of the road size wise, and a good place to start.
I'm approaching final assembly of the cabinet I have been working on in Red Oak. Lot's of chamfer detail. I have used my block plane to smooth out a few areas and liked the result. But when it came to fine tuning the chamfers (originally router cut), I can't see what I am doing with the plane. So I'm hoping the scraper will solve that problem and as well as smoothing the surface. Obviously Red Oak is not a good choice for scraping. But at least I'll get a feel for how a scraper works. I'll still have to fill the grain regardless.
This Red Oak was S4S but you can see the planer marks. Even if I can eliminate some of those marks with the scraper, rather than doing a lot of noisy and messy sanding, that will be a big help too.
Any thoughts ?
Pat
On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:21:40 GMT, patriarch

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When I was prepping the surface of the blanket chest/bench/coffee table (in progress off and on for almost a year now), I used a scraper to smooth a couple of areas where the glue lines weren't as invisible as I'd like. The scraper did a better job than anything else, but tended to leave a smooth rippled surface following the grain pattern. The planer marks are long gone.
Deciding to live with it, I filled the grain with water-based filler (Rockler's Wunderfil), in three passes. A color coat of Varathane's new soy-based stain, and now three coats so far of Waterlox Original. I'll likely do three more on the top, then wax...
Do what you need to do, consistent with the feel of your project. Not everything needs to be worthy of the MOFA. In my case, the grandkids will likely bang on it with their toys, and their parents will put their feet up on it during baseball broadcasts on the tube. That's what it's there for.
Patriarch
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wrote:

Not as far as I've been able to tell. Scraping leaves a much nicer finish than any grit sandpaper I've used, and doesn't fill up the pores with dust. Depending on the angle of your hook, you can take off as much or as little as you need to. (I like to set the four sides to 0, 5, 10 and 15 degrees, and then mark them, but I'm sure everyone does this differently) I'm sure all the standard finishing practices apply- it's not going to make pine magically stain without blotching or anything, but it'll get you to where you're going much more quickly than sanding with a block! Depending on how much scraping you intend to do, and how much endurance you've got in your hands, it's also a nice idea to get one of those adjustable holders for your scraper. Not only do you not have to flex the thing with your fingers, but they can get pretty hot after a while.

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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 06:56:25 +0000, wrote:

Me too. ;)
Yesterday I grabbed a 8" piece of the bottom of a blue jeans leg. (I save the legs when they wear out.) Folded in half to give three compartments. Ran a seam across the bottom and along the side. Left a couple inches unsewn, then slit them. (Look at the pic of the holder in the LV catalog.) There are subtleties to sewing to which I am not privy. Fold up like I described, then try to pull it inside out to put the ?selvage?, the part of the fabric proud of the seam, on the inside. Whoops. Also bent the needle trying to get through the rolled hems; left them alone then.
Anyway, it works fine, cost nothing (jt?), and will do until the fancy leather works its way into my budget.
--
"Keep your ass behind you"


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Wow. You'd make someone a nice wife!
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 10:03:08 -0800, mp wrote:

No, my wife brags about me to her friends. My sewing efforts, however, all appear "Man made." Really, hie thee to the fabric store. Lots of good WW stuff there. Microfiber cloth, pounce wheels, and beeswax, to name a few.
Back to scrapers, does anyone here ever used the curved ones?
--
"Keep your ass behind you"


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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:31:42 -0600, Australopithecus scobis
absolutely. I make most of them myself from whatever suitable steel I can get my hands on. non-carbide tipped circular saw blades are perfect for the thicker ones. handsaw blade stock is right for thinner flexible ones. I rough cut the shape I need on one of those small horizontal/vertical bandsaws and grind and file to fair the curves, then stone the edges square and burnish the hook with a HSS drill blank. typical time from concept to making shavings so thin they have only one side is about 15 minutes.
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:53:41 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote:

My favorite scraper stock comes from old Japanese saw blades. I buy the ones with impulse hardened teeth which can't be resharpened. When the blade wears out I cut scrapers out of it to fit the curve of whatever I'm working on.
--RC That which does not kill us makes us stronger. --Friedrich Nietzsche Never get your philosophy from some guy who ended up in the looney bin. -- Wiz Zumwalt
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:28:36 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com wrote:

do you roll a burr on them? sounds a little thin and hard for that. OTOH, they probably don't need one....
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 14:50:26 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote:

Yeah, I put a burr on them. It's called using a good burnisher and pressing really hard. A little oil helps.
--RC
That which does not kill us makes us stronger. --Friedrich Nietzsche Never get your philosophy from some guy who ended up in the looney bin. -- Wiz Zumwalt
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On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 22:57:40 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@TAKEOUTmindspring.com wrote:

seems like there will be a curve of diminishing returns with burnishing hard thin scrapers. at some point you have to press so hard to roll an edge on the hard steel that you'll put a kink in it.... not sure what steel it'd be though....
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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com writes:
[...]

You make moebius shavings? Try glueing two of them together egde to edge and make a klein bottle shaving!
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto: snipped-for-privacy@physik.uni-bonn.de Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
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