CAD for simple 3-D metal & wood projects?

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-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Don't ask ...
    The one time - I took it to a shop, left it after work (and I worked nights). Got up the next day, walked over - and was informed that it had broken just as they tried to get my truck into the shop. I'd say that was pretty much maximizing the useful life of the part.
-- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> on Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:49:47 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    As the watchmaker's apprentice said when seeing a 1/4-28 tap "My God, I didn't know they made them that big!" -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 13:49:49 -0800, pyotr filipivich

ROFLMAO!!
Gunner, with a 1 1/8"x 10 x 1 1/2" x 11 tap on his desk
__ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Heinlein
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typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Yep. All depends on what you are used to working with. -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:37:09 -0800, pyotr filipivich

Im surprised that no one noticed that the tap...is two taps diameters, two different threads..on the same tap body.
__ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Heinlein
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wrote:

Oh..you work to .125 tolerances then?
__ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Heinlein
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On 11/25/2013 12:25 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

No, that is not what I said, I said I routinely work with pieces that measure in 1/8" resolution. The tolerances have to be much greater for a joint to disappear.
There is a difference between resolution and tolerance. They are not the same. I simply choose to design using 1/8" as my smallest increment. The cuts have to be as close to that measurement as possible. A piece that calls to be 48.125" needs to be as close to that as possible. 48.120" is way not close enough if you don't want the joint to stick out like a sore thumb.
Then stack on top of that the wood greatly changes shape, relative to steel, depending on the relative humidity and a project may have several hundred pieces that interlock with each other. We wood workers work in pretty tight tolerances too but don't draw project pieces to sizes that include minute fractions for the sake of having odd lengths and widths. I realize this is required in smaller sized metal working projects where size dictates higher precision.

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wrote:

And in big ones too. As Pytor indicated...he turned 30' shafts that were in .0004 tolerance. 30 Foot shafts.
Gunner

__ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Heinlein
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On 11/25/2013 5:37 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

NOT that kind of joint! ;~)
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Gunner Asch wrote:

Well, if you're going to give someone the shaft, you might as well do it right. ;-)
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19:25:25 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Especially at those prices!
-- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Not me - that was the Experts. The parts themselves had a tolerance of .005 iirc. That was the easy part. Anyone can turn a 3 foot diameter shaft to within 5 thou. The tricky part is making sure that the entire piece was within 4/10ths of a thousandth of an inch at what ever diameter you reached - over a twenty to thirty foot length. On manual machines. Originally installed for war work (I didn't ask "Which war") on what used to be tide flats.
    OTOH, ever try to locate and measure the ridges in the bore of a shaft, what is sixteen feet deep? Pretty smooth to look at, but reading a dial gauge when it is more than a couple feet into the bore gets to be a real trick. (Put a scope on a magnetic clamp and sight through that.)     Then came honing the bore out. The hones took off about a tenth each pass, it takes six minutes to make one pass. Some of the ridges were 10 to 15 thou high. It was boring work, but it paid the bills. -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granularity
For my circuit board layouts granularity was the snap-to grid spacing, usually 0.010" or 0.0125" which are 1/100 or 1/80 of an inch.
The resolution was usually 0.002", the size step between track widths and pad diameters.
The accuracy of the CAD data was 1 micron.
The tolerance was defined as how much larger a pad must be than the hole drilled through it, to ensure that the drilled hole didn't break through the outer circumference. IOW it was the allowable misregistration between the etched copper circuit and the drill machine. It was a manufacturing constraint, not a designer's choice.
jsw
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On 11/25/2013 12:25 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

When "woodworking", depends upon what you're making/measuring.
In a construction project, .0125" is generally what a framing carpenter shoots for when measuring for a cut.
Whereas a trim carpenter would probably base most of his measurements on .03125".
In a piece of fine furniture or cabinetry, .015625" is often not acceptable due to its obvious visibility, or when needing parts to be square.
Leon, being a master craftsman, more than likely sets his drawing "precision" for critical projects when using SketchUp to 1/64", which gives you a roundup of 1/32" for cutting dimensions on a shop drawings.
That said, most learn quickly to batch cut like parts so that any error in like components still make for consistent, same size parts.
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rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

    Did you mean 1/8th of an inch, or 1/80th of an inch? The former is reasonable, the later, not so much.

    to the nearest 32nd of an inch. Hmm ...

    Why not? What is so fantastic about 1/64th of an inch?
     -- pyotr filipivich "With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
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On 11/25/2013 3:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Nothing ... totally opposite of "fantastic".
In short, errors in precision, no matter how small, are cumulative and effect how things join, and whether or not they maintain a desired property, like parallel.
A 1/64" gap in a joint, or between boards in a panel, is highly visible.
Any piece where an angle, or worse, a compound angle, is the norm (chairs, bow front tables, splayed table legs, etc) 1/64" of an inch deviation at 12" is roughly 3/16" at 48", which means parts don't meet, and/or are not flush along their surfaces/edges, or are not the desired angle when they do.
A 1/64" variance in material _thickness_ will play havoc with the way other parts fit together.
Cumulative error is the bugaboo of any endeavors, including woodworking, where precision is required.
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Yah think?

Try it in a engine block.

Indeed it is!!
Gunner
__ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Heinlein
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On 11/25/2013 4:22 PM, Swingman wrote:

Meant to say roughly "doubled".
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True indeed. Now if we made stuff that was .015624...we call em blacksmith fits
Hammer to shape, file to fit..paint to cover.
(Grin)
Gunner
__ "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." - Heinlein
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On 11/25/2013 5:39 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

LOL Actually spent a good part of my yoot as a horseshoer, doing hand forged, corrective shoeing.

Damned hard to 'dimension' a part, other than by eye, that's cherry red. Amazing how accurate some blacksmith's "eye" can get, though. :)
Woodworkers call it, measure twice, cut once, pound to fit.
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