Bad service at Paxton in KC

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I STILL say be glad they are open on Saturdays! If you want something that may not be accessible call in advance so you don't waste your time and increase your blood pressure. SOLVE the problem, instead of merely whining about how the store is out to inconvenience you.
I love In & Out burgers, but if I don't ask for my burger "well done" it invariably is too pink for my liking. Rather than complain about how they can't cook a burger properly, I just ask for it well done when I order. THAT'S problem SOLVING instead of COMPLAINING.
dave
dave
Clif wrote:

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Ok, I'll give you the point for having to go out of my way to solve or prevent a potential problem for myself, now, why does the store management make certain that when they choose to be open, they ensure there is adequate, properly trained staff available to retrieve items that they sell? Why make a potential customer responsible for doing what a business should do as a matter of service? Especially when a customer cannot be expected to know what items the store CHOOSES to make inaccessible on SOME operating days.
That is my primary problem with this entire discussion, that you and others see nothing wrong with a store not serving their customers appropriately. Appropriately defined as having items the store has in stock and available on a "weekday" not be available merely because some employee cannot be bothered to go get it for him. Rob stated that it is not a matter of training, eliminating the "safety" excuse, just citing company "policy". A company with a policy that shows its disregard for its customers, interesting.
Clif

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I agree if there is willful disregard for their customers, you have a legitimate gripe, Clif.
OTOH, you KNOW that there are issues with accessibility with some sheet goods on Saturdays, so calling ahead just seems prudent. Otherwise take you business elsewhere IF there's anyplace else to go on Saturday that you prefer. See, my point is that if they are your only option you need to either work WITH them or go there M-F. What if you worked on Saturdays and expected them to be open for YOU on Sundays? That's obviously unreasonable. Think of them being open on Saturday as a bonus. Perhaps SOME items will be unavailable then. That's something you KNOW about and should be prepared for.
dave
Clif wrote:

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"The answer to *any* question that starts off "why don't they..." is _always_ 'money'." -- Robert A. Heinlein.
I expand on this later..

The answer is simple: Money.

"Appropriately" by _your_ definition.
Maybe we feel that "access to _some_ of the products" on Saturday is better than "access to *none* of the products" on Saturday -- which would be the situation if the store was _closed_ on Saturday.

You're a liar. (Since you've chosen to be inflammatory in your mis- statements of fact, I'll be equally inflammatory in my accurate statements.)
It was *not* "some employee cannot be bothered to", it was "the employee was NOT ALLOWED, by corporate policy, to". "Management" made that clear, and you have acknowledged reading that statement from 'management'.
Thus, you have materially, and *KNOWINGLY*, _mis-stated_ the facts. In other words, you lie.
Of course, if one takes what you wrote 'literally', and -not- as 'what you meant, not what you said', Then your *entire* argument collapses into nonsense. To wit:
You defined "appropriately" as:
... having items the store has in stock and available on a "weekday" _NOT_ be available merely because some employee cannot be bothered to go get it
Now, by *your* definition of "appropriately"< the store in question _is_ serving their customers "appropriately".
Yet, _you_ "see something wrong with this", apparently.
You demand that they serve their customers 'appropriately', and object to actions that meet your declared definition of appropriately.

A company that is 'fiscally responsible' -- as it is *required*by*law* to be, on behalf of it's stockholders.
The economics of the situation *are* simple:
Staffing the 'yard' on Saturday *costs*more* than the additional income generated.
Staffing the 'office' on Saturday brings in *more*revenues* than the additional costs incurred by being open on Saturday.
Believe it or not, 'serving the convenience of the customer' is *secondary* to serving the stockholders. *USUALLY*, the two goals are mutually consistent, but, _when_there_*is*_a_conflict_, serving the stockholder's interest *does* take precedence. Otherwise, you're in the situation of the guy "who gave discounts till the day he went broke."
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Clif wrote:

About the only thing you can do is vote with your feet. I did that when a local computer store charged me 15% restocking fee to literally put the item on the shelf right by the cash register. (1) The clerk didn't even have to move his feet. That was, um, two printers and four computers ago, and they didn't get any part of it.. They chose their policy; I chose mine.
-- Mark
------------------
(1) I knew that was their policy but I thought we had an agreement. I needed a video card but when I got to the store I couldn't remember 100% sure the chipset needed. To save a trip I bought one of each, and I had the firm impression I could bring the wrong one back when convenient for full credit.
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Not to just jump in but IIRC, the OP said that your salesman simply stated that "we don't do that on Saturday" without even looking to see if the item requested was accessible while following union rules. If that is the case, then you might want to have a talk with your employees. I guess that my question is if you don't keep some supplies of the more popular items in your warehouse where they can be reached on a Saturday, why do you bother opening?
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving


"Alex" < snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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wrote:
Why the argument?
Like I say earlier, if you live in KC just go to Liberty Hardwood, in Mo. I know they are cheaper and the sales people are friendlier.

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On 5 Jan 2004 13:15:25 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net (Alex) wrote:

AH, another UNION deacle. When will we, as a country learn that unions have grown too fat, lazy and ugly to serve our needs? As a customer, I don't care if you hire "unionized" workers or not AS LONG AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted. When businesses cannot do business for their paying customers, they need to consider other options. If your locale is a "closed shop" locale, I feel sorry for all of you.
true freedom does not come with union dues, nor with unions restricting what can and cannot be done by a business owner.
DEATH to most unions!!!!!!!
Clif
TANSTAAFL, Robert A. Heinlein
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It seems Clif is looking for a place to rant. He was offered a nice explanation by Alex. But for self-centered Clif...."AS LONG AS MY SERVICE is not interrupted" it is all about him! If a store is open on Saturday it means that everybody in the store must jump to his every whim! And if they don't he must have someone to blame! Never mind the fact that Paxton is well known for their service. Never mind the fact that the rules, whether union or not, are there for the safety of the workers. (How would you like to leave your normal work area, go to a dark warehouse, finally find the keys to an unfamiliar forktruck and maneuver several hundred pounds of plywood 25 or 30 feet over your head while knowing that other customers are waiting for you and nobody else in the store knows you are in the warehouse or will come to see if you need help.) You see, basically this is a human rights issue. But Clif is the type of person who is too blind and uncaring to understand this. He can brag about having "been able to work diligently enough to earn several hundreds of thousands each year, Pretty good for a person with a Loyala Univ Info Systems Bachelors degree" but he obviously don't care if the salesperson at Paxton has a safe place to work or not. It is also obvious from his rant that he doesn't care if the salesperson makes a wage that is enough to feed his family, nor does he care that the people who work in the warehouse can spend a weekend with their children. He just feels entitled to them being there to bow to him every minute the door is open and get him whatever he wants at the lowest price in town because in his life he is the only one that matters. In my shop he is the type of person we like to see go to the competing stores, because we know that no matter how hard we try he will never be pleased. He is too cheap to spend enough money to make putting up with him worth our while. And he is too selfcentered to understand that, though we try to meet the needs of every customer that walks through the door we must balance that with the requirement that we make enough profit for all of us, both managers and workers, to live on or we go out of business. Then everybody loses, customers, managers, workers...everybody.
I am not associated with Paxton except that I have received products from there and the service has always been good. If you have read this far I appreciate your putting up with my rant. I am just tired of some people who are always ready to blame the "unions", "government", (insert one of many names in the blank), without trying to understand why things are the way they are and without ever putting any effort into making things better for people.
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yeah, it sounds like clif is pretty much a twit.
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O

Why should I be responsible for making things better for others? Is that not their own responsibility? Oh, I forgot, from each according to their means, to each according to their needs. Typical union/democrat/xocialist crap.
As far as "bowing to my every whim, no, I do not expect that, just Reasonable access to the retail store's goods whenever the retail store is OPEN for business.
Clif
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Alex,
Thank you for your professional and service oriented reply.
I am sure the molding was from a different supplier and was not my main concern. As I mentioned, my main problem was the plywood. I drove quite a ways to find that you had the product but couldn't or wouldn't get it for me.
Your yard does seem truly inaccessible on Saturday due to overly restrictive union rules, but I assure you, I have been given plywood on a Saturday before. I don't know exactly where they went to get it but I do know it was up a flight of stairs in the back. Perhaps you could have several sheets brought down on Friday in case a customer comes looking for it on Saturday. You did have a nice selection but did not have 3/4" oak. I would think that would be a popular size. Of course, it is possible there were several sheets there Saturday morning and someone else bought them before I arrived. I don't have a good answer for that one.
I don't want to think, however, that I have to take off work to reliably buy plywood from your store.
I will certainly shop your store again. You offer a unique blend of wood and woodworking products.
Thank you for your response.
Rob

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FWIW - I've been a Paxton (and other suppliers) customer for over 10 years. I've always been happy with the Paxton service. In my view they have 2 niche's for the woodworker - great service and great variety in their retail store. They're sometimes a little pricey (hint, hint Alex), but the pricing varies between woods and other things, so it's always worth investigating. I continue to go there because I can almost always find what I'm looking for and more often than not, I'll find great things I haven't been looking for. They carry the best selection of exotic woods in the city. And to be fair, I called them pricey - but I just bought 22 board feet of 8/4 Cocobolo rosewood from them for $11.33 a bf. I've NEVER seen it that cheap anywhere so I had to stock up on some of the prettiest wood I've ever worked.
To be honest, I've gotten to know Alex over the past year and always enjoyed the conversations in the store, the good service and the fact they've always helped me load my stuff in my car (that's going for a little extra service I've never gotten anywhere else).
Gary

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Have you try Liberty Hardwoods, Inc. in 7200 Truman Rd.? MO? I believe they are more friendly and flexible in their pricing. Their phone number toll-free 1-888-908-0852 and local number is 1-816-231-0852.
I am NOT from Liberty Hardwoods, but a satisfied customer.

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Oops... I forgot they also make free delivery if you buy more than $350. Furthermore, they sell Mexico or China made compatible Accuride slide for a ridiculous low price.

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how ridiculous for say a set of 24"s?
WD wrote:

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For 24" - $5.35 and 28" - $5.95. Why pay more when you don't need to?

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that's a good price if they are on a par with the quality of the KV's I get for $10 a pair for 24".
dave
WD wrote:

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I have purchased them before and they are just as good as the REAL ones. I will be getting more of the other sizes as I need it to complete many tool cabinets in my garage and sewing room in the basement for my wife. Their red oak, 4/4 FAS is only $2.15bf and their Lauan plywood is cheaper than the Home centers here. In fact I get all my plywood there now.

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