We're saved

[ARW]

> > > "Company officials say they had produced five litres of petrol

Come on harry. Ever heard of a synonym?

[harry]

Yes but what's it got to do with this process?

I seem to remember some Yank had made an artificial tree. You could draw alcohol from a tap in the"trunk". Worked using water, atmospheric CO2 and sunlight.

You might as well grow real trees and use the wood to make alcohol. Cheaper and more efficient.

[Doctor Drivel]

That is very observant of you.

[docholliday93]

that might *just* be possible. The UK has under 1 acre per person...

I was actually making some crude assumptions that we couldn't afford to use more than say 10% of land for fuel and combining it with a guess of 2 to 3 persons in a house, on average...

[docholliday93]

I think you're out of date - the population has gone up (ONS claim 62 million in

2010 and it's still rising), and we haven't reclaimed a comparable amount of land...

[The Natural Philosopher]

in 2010 and it's still rising), and we haven't reclaimed a comparable amount of land... Thibnk its about 73 million now UK and NI

[Doctor Drivel]

Your assumption was very crude.

The overall agricultural subsidy is over £5 billion per year. This is £5 billion to an industry whose total turnover is only £15 billion per annum. Unbelievable. This implies huge inefficiency in the agricultural industry, about 40% on the £15 billion figure. Applied to the acres agriculture absorbs, and approximately 16 million acres are uneconomic. Apply real economics to farming and you theoretically free up 16 million acres, which is near 27% of the total UK land mass. This is land that certainly could be put to better use for the population of the UK like for fuel.

[Doctor Drivel]

Claim and reality is very different.

[Doctor Drivel]

This man is barking mad.

[Andy Champ]

You mean UK, OR you mean GB & NI...

That aside, I can't see any number that big. What's your source?

Andy

[Tim Lamb]

Well lets try some sums (others may care to refine this).

16million acres? According to John Nix (imperial college at Wye) the total UK arable crops area for 2000 was 45million acres.

Winter oil seed rape is likely to give the best fuel production at around 362l/ton. Yield is around 1.4 tons/acre and for crop husbandry reasons is grown 1 year in 4.

So we could produce 45,000,000 x 1.4 x 362 / 4 x 1000 tons of fuel.

Or 5.7 million tons.

UK road fuel use for 2009 was 35 million tons.....

[Doctor Drivel]

Yep. Best forget fuel and build homes and leisure facilities on the land. Then homes will be affordable.

[Doctor Drivel]

The UK is GB & NI.

[Tim Lamb]

I believe a rough approximation of housing cost is 1/3rd site, 1/3rd build and 1/3rd profit for the builder.

Currently, housing associations can buy land which would not otherwise get planning consent (exception 32?) at a small multiple of the value as farmland.

[nobody]

"But company executives hope to build a large plant, which could produce more than a tonne of petrol every day,"

So something between 12 to 20 cars could fill up their tanks each day. And how much "renewable" energy will that take to produce I wonder?

[Andy Champ]

That's kind of the point. Even you can do better than that if you read carefully..

Andy

[Steve Firth]

a a, a a, a a, the the, the...

Come on stop stammering and speak up if you are begging for my attention again.

[Doctor Drivel]

< snip drivel >

[Doctor Drivel]

Developer stuff maybe. More like 20% for the build. The average home in the UK has 50 to 66% of the price the land price. The brick (capital) are not worth much, which depreciates over time if not maintained.

They can also land bank and speculate not making land productive.

[Doctor Drivel]

I can't do better than "The UK is GB & NI"