Warmfront is a scam.

[George]

Forgot about....

Putting floorboards down and hammering screws home which caused cracks in the kitchen ceiling,they had the tools but used brute force in most cases.

[Derek Geldard]

My mother's experience in the '60s with having a dormer bedroom funded by a local authority grant fitted to a fine 80 year old terraced cottage was enough to put me off the whole idea of getting building work done paid for by a government grant.

Many house were wrecked by such schemes and the price paid was inflated by more/less the same amount as the government contribution.

Derek

[dennis]

Why? You haven't been very specific.

Its easy to get a combi and five rads installed for less than the £2k7 AFAICS. And it can be done OK but as you say it doesn't include redecorating. I bet you don't redecorate afterwards either.

As I may have.

It is stated quite clearly that the grant does not include boxing in of pipes and may have surface runs. It also tells you that if you want these you have to negotiate with the fitters.

What I can tell you is that they have to trunk the drops if they are near doorways or light switches as that is an elf and safety issue.

[dennis]

You agreed to that. You should read what you are agreeing to and if you don't like it pay someone else to do it.

I didn't care if they put all the pipes surface mounted.. It was more a matter of survival than looks. However they didn't run surface mount at all except for where the floors are concrete.

[YAPH]

I did call them to ask about getting onto their scheme (as an installer) but got the impression it was set up so only the medium-to-large size companies need apply.

[YAPH]

Oh, and (sorry to follow up my own post) I do recall that in the case of the £300 (or so) grants for those who don't qualify for the full £2700, there was a £50 administration fee the installer had to pay to the Warmfront apparatchiks!

[Derek Geldard]

On R4 yesterday afternoon they said it was for *pensioners over 70* and on *benefits* (as well) .

We got our cavity wall insulation in 1984 and got a new boiler in 2004 and paid for it out of our own cash, -spendable-pissable

-up-against-the-wall-in-Benidorm type money.

Derek

[dennis]

Applicants meeting the following criteria may be eligible for a Warm Front Grant.

1. Householders aged 60 or over in receipt of one or more of the following benefits:

Income Support Council Tax Benefit Housing Benefit Job Seekers Allowance (income-based) Pension Credit

1. Householders with a child under 16, or pregnant women with maternity certificate MAT-B1, in receipt of one or more of the following benefits:

Income Support Council Tax Benefit Housing Benefit Job Seekers Allowance (income-based) Pension Credit

1. Householders in receipt of one or more of the following benefits:

Working Tax Credit (with an income of less than £15,460, which must include a disability element) Disability Living Allowance Child Tax Credit (with an income of less than £15,460) Housing Benefit (which must include a disability premium) Income Support (which must include a disability premium) Council Tax Benefit (which must include a disability premium) War Disablement Pension (which must include a mobility supplement or Constant Attendance Allowance) Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit (which must include a mobility supplement or Constant Attendance Allowance) Attendance Allowance

Just as well you had the cash.

[stuart noble]

[floosy]

So what is the government on about now.

The Warmfront eligibilty criteria has been in place for years.

I had my loft insulated for nothing last year via Warmfront, and had no problems.

Are the goverment now saying ALL pensioners over a certain age are eligible. Most of the OAP's who moan are some of the richest people, who just do not want to part with there dosh.This should be income/savings means tested.

What the criteria does not cover, are a married couple below 60, not claiming any benefits (due to wife being long term sick after having children but not having paid enough NI contibs), with no children below 16, and on very low income. But getting Working Tax benefits, and having all of that taken off by having to pay Council Tax.

Sorry about the moaning.

[Ed Sirett]

This was not a combi (although for this customer the combi would have been a much better choice). The cost was simply a new boiler and a few TRVs they charged 3300 - 2700 to the occupant for a job that many would have charged 2200 for. For 2700 the making good could have been done to a high standard.

[Mark]

Too right. A lot of rich pensioners are have got/are going to get free insulation where poorer families who work hard, claiming no benefits, get no help. To make matters worse, I hear, the government are going to pass more of the cost directly onto the energy companies. The latter, of course, will just increase the costs to the consumer.

The poorest pensioners, who live in council houses probably will not benefit either.

It really beggars belief!

[Tony Bryer]

True, but the rich pensioners are paying tax. You could say the same about free bus travel: I know a number of just-60 people who are delighted with this perk (it's worth much more if you live in London)

[Mark]

Except that poorer people are also paying tax. Could be more tax than an hyperthetical rich person if you consider disposable income as the main indicator.

I doubt many rich people will take up the offer of free bus travel, especially around here where it is limited to say the least.

[Edward W. Thompson]

Poorer families? Who are these people and what does that (Poorer families) mean? Unless everyone is 'paid' the same there will always be those with less than others but it doesn't make them poor. There are very few poor people in this country although there are plenty of people who appear to be unable to manage their financial resources sensibly (smoking, down the pub etc). By wasting their money they make themselves 'poor' and have insufficient for the essentials, then claim they are 'poor' and entitled to 'handouts'.

As an aside, is it only 'poor' families who work hard? This is alot of political crap inspired to creat a division within society. The facts are many so called poor people do not work and many of those that do certainly do not work 'hard', whatever work hard means. Yes, there are specific cases where true hardship exists but these cases are not so widespread as many would care to suggest for political ends.

Those with higher incomes pay more tax than those on low incomes. So the Government will give them and all who have paid taxes a comparatively small refund in the form of home insulation. In the overall sense a very small refund. Doesn't seem iniquitous to me.

As far as cost of insulation is concerned so the Utility companies will/may recover their cost through pricing. Is that any different to the Government providing their 'handouts' through taxes? Seems much the same to me.

[George]

So what do recommend they do with little money they do have for enjoyment? each and everyone of us are entitled to a cigarette and a pint which actually doesn't come into the eqaution really. As for managing finacial resources how do you manage a meagre social security payment each fortnight when a woman with three children has to put in for a loan to pay off debts of council tax,gas/electricity bills ect,she's struggling before she got the loan and getting the loan has even worsened her situation.

Ps shes divorced through no fault of her own and her x whos not earning enough to pay child alimoney. Try to understand poverty and you'll see the bigger picture off being poor.

This is just one instance of being on or below the breadline.

[Andy Burns]

Presumbly the deal on this insulation will be supply and fit, rather than supply only, and even after the 50% discount, it will still be three times the price of nipping down to Wickes and DIYing it?

[dennis]

Who says everyone is entitled to a cigarette and a pint? If you are receiving social payouts they are not designed to allow for addictions or going down the pub every day. Maybe this is why they have a financial problem?

That depends on why she has those debts.. if its because she is addicted to drugs and/or going down the pub then the answer is obvious.

Which may or may not be caused by bad management of finances, but if she smokes and/or goes down the pub it is.

If I ever get benefits I won't expect the tax payer to pay for my addiction and I don't expect to have to pay for someone else's addiction. I am not against them being treated to stop the addiction as that benefits all but I am not going to help them continue if I can avoid it.

[dennis]

Its all just standard nu labor lies. Most of the people who qualify under the new scheme already qualified under various other schemes before. (I could get cavity wall insulation at 90% off on one scheme and I work, no benefits Its the normal tactic of announcing giveaways multiple times without actually making any more cash available. Nu labor has been doing this for a decade if you actually look at the press releases and add them up they have "given away" at least ten times what they actually have. It makes the dumb voters think they are really generous and giving stuff back when they aren't.

[George]

Having a Ciggy and a pint whilst on benefits is like I said does not come into the equation but if you want to be picky then the Gov seriously needs to look into those on benefit who can afford to run a car per every twelve months if they can afford to run a car then it is they who are not poor...ciggy's and a few pints are nothing compared to that.