TOT (not about DIY at all): Lobby of parliament regarding the handover of UK powers to the EU

[cl]

Well that's your prerogative but I'm sorry I don't agree, I want

*some* limitation on the draconian legislation that recent governments have been trying to introduce.

[cl]

Well that's a well argued point! :-)

[Tim Streater]

Don't be a fool, you're not sorry at all.

It's been a shining success in that way, eh?

The issue is not so much the content of the HRA, but that it's written in such a wooly way, and gives wide latitude in terms of interpretation by judges. "There is a right to a family life" or somesuch, is all very fine, but not if it means we can't deport a serious criminal who happens to have managed to father some children here. The rest of us have rights, too.

[Adrian]

Small detail. That never happened.

failure-to-deport-man/

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to tell me which particular articles of the European Convention of Human Rights you disagree with?

Perhaps you'd then care to explain why the Human Rights Act is so bad, since it's only purpose is to allow breaches of the EConvHR to be prosecuted in UK courts rather than the European Court of Human Rights.

Perhaps you'd then go on to explain why it's such a good thing that the UK government should be the final arbiter of what is and what isn't a breach of such basic human rights, considering for a breach to be prosecuted under the ECHR & HRA, it has to be committed BY THE GOVERNMENT...?

[Adrian]

So, given that the HRA allows the ECHR to be prosecuted by UK judges rather than Strasbourg, means that the problem is the UK judges, right?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Really?

[Adrian]

Do you NEED to ask...?

[Clive George]

Do you get the feeling that Bill would have supported those implementing the sus laws back in the day?

[The Other John]

I have not read it so can only judge it by those cases which appear in the papers. The impression is that it is so loosely worded that judges can drive coach and horses through it to thwart the intention of the Home Office to deport undesirable aliens. We should copy the French - deport first, let them appeal after.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

;-)

;-)

[Adrian]

Now there's a surprise...

I noticed you snipped the (_very next_) line in the post which linked to the Wikipedia article on the ECHR, which included detail on all the articles.

Or, if you prefer a more original source...

and, for the HRA98...

and

BTW, you do know that the ECHR is nothing to do with the EU, don't you? That the UK ratified it two whole decades before joining the EU? That the UK was probably the main driver behind setting it up, and effectively wrote it all? And that the UK would also have to leave the Council of Europe in order to "de-ratify" the convention?

[Adrian]

Oh, and I notice you also snipped the preceding section of my post, which contained a link thoroughly debunking - by referring to the actual court transcripts - the media reporting of one particularly "notorious" case.

You may also like to note that the judge in that particular case was British and in a British court, and the appeal was still under a lower level of tribunal - there were higher courts left within the British judicial system for the Government, which they declined to take.

The wording of that particular article of the ECHR (and thereby HRA) is, in full... "(1) Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.

(2) There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

If that's worded loosely, then it's worded loosely in the FAVOUR of the state - the UK government.

[Tim Streater]

No, the problem is the HRA. Judges are human; give them wooly or badly framed legislation, and they will generate wooly and unintended outcomes.

The HRA is framed in just the sort of way that continental legislation is generally framed, and it doesn't sit well with our legal system.

[Another Dave]

Where have you been for the last month?

Another Dave