TOT (not about DIY at all): Lobby of parliament regarding the handover of UK powers to the EU

[Bill Wright]

Mass Lobby of Parliament ? MONDAY

On Monday afternoon (10th) the House of Commons will debate the hand-over of 35 Law and Justice powers to the EU ? without a referendum.

These include the infamous European Arrest Warrant, used recently to handcuff and imprison the parents of Ashya King.

These powers ? part of the 135 powers that the UK can opt out of this year under the Lisbon Treaty ? are being handed back to the EU voluntarily, without a referendum.

They end the tradition of Habeas Corpus which has protected British citizens from arbitrary arrest for 900 years. They open the door for UK citizens to come under the power of the new European Public Prosecutor, even though the government has opted out of this.

They constitute a clear hand-over of powers to the EU without a referendum. Given the opportunity to ?repatriate? powers, the government is doing the opposite ? and again breaking its pledge to ask the people.

Gather at Old Palace Yard, opposite the House of Lords, from mid-day on MONDAY. The debate will go on all afternoon from around 2.45 onwards.

Bill

[cl]

Our constitution which you seem to think is wonderful works this way. Power is vested in our elected representatives in parliament, we don't do things by referendum.

[Bill Wright]

Power seems to be vested mostly in the EU.

Bill

[Another John]

...

...

Presumably it can also be used by us to get hold of non-British European criminals who, having wrought evil in the UK, have scuttled back to their own country?

Anyone have any figures, as opposed to tabloid-driven emotional yelps of distress and protest?

[The Ashya King case was, in all retrospective views, a c*ck-up by the relevant police force, not an example of the improper use of these powers.] [[And foithermore: if you use an EAW on a British person who's gone to Spain or (say) Greece, the local police there don't say "oh hang on a mo chaps: this guy's British -- we'll treat him as though he were being arrested and held in the UK, shall we?"]]

J.

[Bill Wright]

I'm not arguing about the specifics. What shocks me is that we are giving away even more power to the EU.

Bill

[Andrew Gabriel]

Actually, is was due to grossly incorrect information given to the police by Southampton Hospital.

[Chris French]

In message , Bill Wright writes

Fair enough, that's what parliament is for. A referendum on something like staying in the EU, or major changes to the legal arrangements - eg Masstricht is fair enough, not every time there is to be a change

And also arrest and return other criminals to the UK for trial. I think there are valid concerns over the EAW and how fair trials might be in soem of the countries. However, that is a matter of implementation rather than principle.

See above - and I note that 100 powers are continuing to opted out of. and what are the other 34?

Well, unlawful detention rather than arrest. One could debate how well it has done that. In what way is the EAW arbitrary?

So it doesn't actually, since we haven't signed up to that.

The Conservatives said they would have a referendum on whether or not we should stay in the EU, that is not the same thing.

>

[cl]

But you complained "without a referendum"! :-)

[cl]

... and why, exactly, does that worry you?

Personally I find a lot of the ways that things are done in other countries are better than here.

You need to persuade me that things are worse in other places than here before moaning about 'giving power to the EU'.

I *want* the convention on human rights to continue to be in force here.

[Tim Streater]

Presumably he's complaining that, having passed a law which says that transfer of powers to Brussels is now only possible after a referendum that says so, we now are passing powers to Brussels without one.

[The Other John]

So you're perfectly happy that we can't deport a violent criminal because he's got a cat?

If we are to keep the CHR it needs rewriting.

[Cash]

What about the legal powers that have been removed from the indigenous peoples this country by the two successive governments since September the

11th 2001 under the various Prevention of Terrorism and other lawa - along with their amendments?

Personally Bill, I think that the EU paranoia is generally politically motivated by two right-wing political parties at the moment for their own benefits and is literally blown out of all reasonable proportion.

If you must jump on an anti-EU bandwagon, jump on the one that would enable us to return to the original ideals of the Common Market of trade - rather than a Federal Union of 28 states and some 750 MEPs run by one rather biased Central Parliament.

As a matter of interest, I am *against* many of the EU laws and idiocies of some of our 'elected MEP thieves (sorry members), but I also realise that many of the laws have actually benefited the working population of this country and should be kept.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Indeed. But if we leave the EU we get that choice.

If we stay in, we get NO choice.

[Bill Wright]

I don't. It's a criminal's charter.

Bill

[Bill Wright]

Welcome back.

Bill

[Another John]

Hoorah!! Where have you been, you bugger?

Thanks Bill, for stirring up this particular pub-type discussion[1], and drawing in TNP to voice his 2p (on your side).

OnT: I always like to quote this one:

J.

[1] In which everybody gets increasingly voluble, excited and angry ... and then part as friends, one hopes.

[Brian Gaff]

Yes, and I think the issue is that the government just do not connect the dots over this kind of thing. You only need to see how many days it took for them to realise that the so called big bill for the eu was in fact half that due to the wasteful way the EU does its financial dealings.

Brian

[harryagain]

You are clearly barking mad.

[lucia]

? 2014?11?8????UTC+

8??2?11?15??Bill Wright? ????

the government

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[cl]

You really believe that's the whole story?