The Merits of Ring Final Circuits

[Clive George]

The UK one also means you can't pull the thing out with the wire (not easily, anyway :-) ). Which IMO is a good thing.

cheers, clive

[Doctor Drivel]

A kitchen is best with the main appliances: w/machine, d/washer/ fridge, etc, on radial with their own MCB at the CU. This is easier to control and no silly, ugly fused spurs all over the kitchen tops. If problems on the w/machine the whole kitchen is not down. Only the sockets should be on a ring and only one ring for the kitchen only. Or best have the kitchen sockets on radial too.

Many have one ring in the kitchen and all appliance, bar cooker, and sockets off this. Madness!!

A good point that was picked up on was the irresponsible fitting of spurs off rings

[Doctor Drivel]

The safety is more to do with the British mentality towards safety rather than ring circuits.

[Mathew Newton]

Step on? My sister jumped off the top of a bund bed and landed on one...

She laughs about it now.

Mathew

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:31:16 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Pete C wrote this:-

Insulated pins are not just a feature of UK plugs.

However, were I to have a 3kW electric fire I would certainly operate it via one of the many plugs I have with unsleeved pins. Of course what one doesn't see is the thickness of the copper inside the socket.

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 12:34:21 -0800 (PST) someone who may be Pete C wrote this:-

FSVO "better".

In reality the MCB will generally operate more slowly in the case of a short circuit, but more quickly in the case of an overload. Breaking capacity will be roughly the same, though this depends on the particular MCB.

However, a circuit protected with a 16A MCB does not have much capacity and as a result more circuits will be necessary to cope with the load. This will particularly be the case in a kitchen/utility room where there might need to be four or five radial circuits, as opposed to one or two rings.

[Harry Bloomfield]

The right angled cable exit means that it acts as a deterrent for a user not to pull the plug out by the flex, but it also means the flex can come under tension in use, rather than simply pulling easily out of its socket.

[Harry Bloomfield]

Italy too, where the earth pin on the plug could be unscrewed to enable it to be plugged into an unearthed outlet. Then you could also insert the plug either way up with a 50/50 chance of switching the neutral at the appliance.

[Pete C]

Makes _no_ difference, the sockets have always engaged on the last 7mm of the pins.

BTW a 1p piece is a snug fit between all 3 pins on a 3 pin plug, which made the old uninsulated plugs ideal for a schoolboy prank :)

cheers, Pete.

[John Rumm]

One needs isolation close to the appliance in case of emergency - the layout as you describe it would not provide it. Hence you would end up with double pole face plate switches above the worktop in exactly the same way as one currently does (no requirement for a "ugly fused spur" anywhere). Dedicated radials per appliance do little except raise installation costs and materials usage.

So no different from how it is normally done then.

Best not to generalise, and instead use the most appropriate circuit topology based on the specific circumstances and requirements.

Might well be the optimal solution - especially in a small kitchen.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Why single out kitchen appliances for this special provision? They're no more likely to burst into flames etc than say a TV set.

[Doctor Drivel]

Please eff off you are a plantpot.

[Doctor Drivel]

It is "safer".

You must get to know the difference between an radial and ring.

Yes, a radial.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

You really should go back into rehab since your drinking has obviously got out of control again.

[Frank Erskine]

Somebody using a kitchen appliance such as a hob is probably more likely to cause a fire than somebody using a TV set, albeit the cause of the fire being, say, overheated fat rather than past-the-watershed 'movies', so they are more likely to look for a simple 'isolator' than anything 'complicated' like the front right-hand simmerstat or whatever.

I'd agree about washing machines, fridge/freezers and so on.

I had my kitchen refitted a few weeks ago and had the old cooker supply (only 4 sq. mm) reused as a non-rcd radial circuit purely for the fridge-freezer, and labelled as such. All the other sockets are used solely for relatively low-power kitchen gadgets (and the washer/drier, kettle et.al.)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Go back to just confusing people with your plumbing fantasies. At least you look less of a fool with some of those.

[John Rumm]

Well slightly more likely, since they contain powerful heaters etc. They are also a little unusual in that they frequently obscure the path to their socket - there is no easy way to disconnect a washing machine in an under counter position without pulling it out, and one may be less keen on doing this when it is full of water etc.

[John Rumm]

So you seem to be stating that a face plate switch above the worktop is ugly when connected to a ring circuit, but suddenly elegant when connected to a radial even though they both look identical?

Explain how?

(Note that a MCB does not provide isolation)

The positioning of switches above a worktop has no bearing on circuit topology.

The fact that you make a categorical statement in the absence of the facts and the requirements demonstrates that you should not be making these design decisions.

That claim makes no sense.

The obvious candidates for additional dedicated radials in a kitchen are not sockets and power points for washing machines. Ten double sockets, plus a couple of remotely switched single sockets for a washing machine and dishwasher would be more than adequately served by a single 7.2kW ring circuit.

The place where you are far more likely to want the additional radial would be to provide a non (or discretely) RCD protected feed to the fridge/freezer and the boiler if present.

[Doctor Drivel]

Please eff off as you are a plantpot.

[Doctor Drivel]

Please eff off as you are a plantpot.