Statins (OT)

[The Natural Philosopher]

no, a soothsayer

humans only became vegetarian under extreme population pressure. Although some vegeable matter has always been a part of the diet.

[Peter Parry]

Ah yes, those nice phalloides fungi followed by some nutritious raw Lima and castor oil beans in the salad. Cheerful Abrus precatorius beans will add some colour, Bitter almonds will make a tasty dessert to go with the fruit of the Cerbera odollam, Euonymus atropurpureus and Bittersweet Nightshade for more colour.

Absolutely, kidney beans are just so much nicer fresh and uncooked. Just like with manioc and cashew nuts that silly heating and boiling process plays hell with the flavours.

[Tim Lamb]

That's interesting. The catering dept. criticise my adding table salt to their offerings!

>

[Tim Lamb]

Yes. BTDT:-)

The current 20mg Atorvastatin would conveniently halve to 10 though.

[polygonum]

Let alone that tomatoes increase in lycopene content which enhances their anti-cancer potency.

[The Natural Philosopher]

there are very few animals that are poisonous to eat but plants and fungi - Phew. the list is endless.

[John Williamson]

What these raw food freaks don't seem to know or care about is that not only does cooking and preparation/ processing make most food more palatable, it makes it safer by killing pathogens, more nutritious by denaturing indigestible proteins and destroying many natural toxins, while making it easier to digest, letting us get more calories out of a given portion size.

Apart from those, there are no real benefits...

[John Williamson]

Chemical warfare is nothing new. Even very early plants must have had

*some* chemical defenses as they didn't all have thorns. We're still finding useful ones for killing animals that we can extract from primitive plant types.

[Peter Parry]

To be fair to plants, the first recorded instances of chemical and biological warfare consisted of the firing the rotten carcasses of animals and the blankets of people who died of typhoid and cholera into the besieged fortress. It seems the CBW experts were some way ahead of the medical profession, and way ahead of assorted greenies in understanding the mechanism of disease spread.

[John Williamson]

It's still one tablet per dose of a convenient size for swallowing. The fact that there is only half the amount of active ingredient is balanced by the fact that the ingredient is roughly twice as effective per milligramme.

The reaction to statin doses doesn't seem to be linear, either, with a noticeable threshold in my case, at least. Half the normal dose does nothing, the full dose brings on all the side effects and no apparent benefits, with every statin and Fibrate I've tried. I didn't dare try a larger dose.

[John Williamson]

The first recorded example of *humans* engaging in chemical and biological warfare, I think you mean.

The first plants engaging in it appeared shortly after the first fungus found them tasty. The battle escalated when the fungus created a defense against the poison, and the war's been escalating ever since.

Then, after a while, the insects arrived, and physical defences, such as silica in the plants' tissues, resin which could be exuded from wounds to cover any insects daft enough to stay still long enough and intra- and inter-plant communications were added to the chemical defenses. So the insects found ways round the plants' defenses...

[Huge]

*applause*

[Terry Fields]

It started when I retired, quite a few years ago now. I resolved that my lunch was going to be a 'healthy' one. SWMBO laid in every salad vegetable known to god and man, and every lunchtime I had a mountain of these, with some tuna, peppered mackerel, hard-boiled egg, etc, but piled high with sweet peppers and tomatoes.

After three months I could hardly walk and my joints ached like there was no tomorrow.

After digging around, SWMBO came across a book on arthritis, which I had in a toe joint and finger joint but which hadn't previously been a problem. Among other things it mentioned a connection between tomatoes, sweet peppers, and arthritis, and so I stopped eating them. After some weeks things got better but not completely so. I remember one time she made a super bolognese, but afterwards my toe and finger joints tingled mightly and turned bright red. It turned out she'd used plenty of tomato puree...

Tomatoes belong to the Solanum family, which includes aubergines - these are known as 'nightshade' plants, and one of these is 'deadly'. These contain solanine as a natural protection against insects, and in most of us this is neutralised in the digestive system. However, it has been suggested that arthritis patients might lack this digestive ability, and so solanine is absorbed with consequent negative affect on arthritic joints.

I don't have the book any longer and can't recall its title, so I'm unsure how sweet peppers got on the hit list, as some research suggests these can help arthritis sufferers. If they do, then in my case they certainly didn't overcome the effect of tomatoes.

If you know someone with arthritis, it might just be worth trying a tomato-free diet - a bit difficult in these salad days. But the problem is deeper than that, as the digestion of red meats produces pro-inflammatory compounds which might also antagonise compromised joints. Fish oils produce anti-inflammatories, which is why cod-liver oil can help arthritis sufferers.

As a family we got in to foods and food additives when our very young daughter failed to thrive; it was only after an extensive search - following being abandoned by the NHS - we were put in touch with a peadiatrician that diagnosed a raft of food allergies. That focussed our minds on foods and their contents, which was useful later when the arthritis showed up.

There's shedloads on the web about this, many sites seem cranky, but there's useful info out there too.

[Ian Jackson]

But aren't tomatoes (especially when processed into tomato sauce) supposed to ward off prostate cancer? I think I'd rather live with the arthritis.

[Huge]

[Huge]

All cancer.

[stuart noble]

Most tomatoes taste disgusting to me, so I don't eat them. It's my body's way of telling me they're not for me. Simple really. Eat what you fancy and to hell with the theories

[Nightjar]

Changing to Rosuvastatin should give you the same effect as Atorvastatin at half the dose. NICE doesn't like that though, as it is the most expensive option.

Colin Bignell

[polygonum]

Don't think it is any more:

Have not checked NICE pronouncements since then.

[polygonum]

Oops - comes of not reading properly - apologies - Rosuvastatin is still much more expensive.