self-closing fire doors in self-catering house?

[larkim]

Have just got back from staying in a four storey SC house with relatives. = All doors had self closers on them, but there were wedges liberally distrib= uted around.

There's nothing in BR which says that the doors cannot have wedges near the= m once the BR inspector has left; but their fire risk assessment should dea= l with it, and incoming tenants should be made aware that doors to the esca= pe route must be kept closed at all times. If the temporary tenants then c= hoose to ignore the clear guidelines, then the owners of the property aren'= t likely to be liable for any consequences.

A proper fire risk assessment might take account of other risks, such as ab= sence of being able to hear distress around the house through closed doors,= which might allow wedges to be used during times of high traffic, but requ= ire them not to be used at quieter times, or perhaps when the kitchen is be= ing used.

Matt

[Adam Funk]

(Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about the owners --- just curious.)

OK, so they could *now* replace the doors with 30 min fire doors

*without* self-closers if they wanted to?

Do these requirements apply to houses intended for single-family owner-occupation, or just rental?

[tim.....]

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Domestic property, even that rented out does not need to be fire risk assessed unless it is an HMO (and then you wouldn't describe it as SC).

It used to be a BR that all internal room doors (except a bathroom) had to have self closers on them. But they dropped this reg recently, presumably because they discovered that 99.9999999% of occupiers found them to be a pain in the arse and routinely wedged the doors open thus meaning that having self closers on a door meant that it was more likely to be left open

24/7 than if it didn't. (In my last three rented flats not a single self closers has been left allowed to work, for instance)

The law of unintended (in this case un-though-out) consequences in operation

tim

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

The moaning whinging bastards would have been glad of the self-closer if they had been in their rooms when the hotel caught fire.

Honestly, if the human race gets any more stupid it will die out. Problem is, the stupid survive and go on to breed more stupid people.

[John Rumm]

I believe so. Unless the door was to an integral or attached garage...

For use in a single family dwelling house I think you only need 20 min doors. Not sure about multi.

They do apply to single family occupation, what I don't know is if they get more stringent for rental or houses of multiple occupation.

More here:

[Adam Funk]

I think you're being unduly harsh in this case. It was a self-catering house, not a hotel, and I expect many people have never come across self-closing doors in normal houses.

[Adam Funk]

In this case, both the kitchen and the living-dining room had self-closing doors --- you can imagine what a hassle that was for trying to serve meals. (None of us had previously come across self-closing doors in a house, as opposed to a hotel, B&B, office, &c.)

At the risk of getting on Grimly's hit-list, I'll admit that we bought some cheap doorstops to use during the day (especially around mealtimes).

[Adam Funk]

How? You'd still have to turn the handle, open the kitchen door, grab the oven dish with both hands, rush through the door before it closes on you, knock on the dining room door with your head, wait until someone gets up & opens it, then serve the food.

[Adam Funk]

[tim.....]

what's wrong with having two people take the food from the kitchen to the dining room?

[Andy Dingley]

I ran into this though, on a three storey house with a separate basement flat. It had been (slightly) converted into office space beforehand, with very ugly firedoors and wired glass partitions added around the stairwell, because of its depth. BCO was "resistant" to them being removed.

[Andy Dingley]

Most of my doors self-close (one self-opens), because they were hung on the skew!

[docholliday93]

Depends on the house; because of the position of the chimney breast my kitchen door opens into what is effectively a narrow passage - there isn't room for somebody to hold the door open without obstructing the passage.

[Adam Funk]

That's the other option, of course.

[Adam Funk]

I'm familiar with that kind too ;-) but they don't usually latch fully so that you have to turn the handle to get through.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Rising-butt hinges have been around for decades and were a common fitment for those who had a clue.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

Nowt wrong with that - so long as you make sure they're removed at bedtime or when going out. The major danger from careless/thoughtless feckers is when they leave the doors jammed open around the clock.

[tim.....]

which, of course, they do

tim

[Bill]

In message , Bob Eager writes

I was working in a building with those recently, they also respond to the whine of an overloaded battery drill. I kept closing the doors as I drilled holes in some wood work!!

[Adam Funk]

Well, this house had no chip pan & a "no smoking" rule (enforced against the security deposit, I think), so the risk of fire was substantially reduced already.

My American relatives were however shocked that both external doors locked with a key from the inside. They considered that to be a serious hazard (you can't get out in case of a fire unless you remember to find the key on the way out).