Reciprocating saw vs Chain saw

[T i m]

Understood.

Well she's already got a Petzl Vertex Vent Arb helmet (with integrated face guard and ear defenders) and we have checked out the sizes on trousers and the Stihl Hi Flex in small seem a good fit in her (and are Type _C although only 6 layers?) if / when she gets that far.

Because she's 'small' (compared with yer typical Male Tree Surgeon) she found the new Petzl Sequoia SRT harness more comfortable than alternatives (partly because as she mentioned "she has hips") ;-)

There was no point getting the harness without the Marlow Gecko climbing rope and carabina. ;-)

CS boots are also on the list and I think I remember someone saying that generally only the left glove would have CS protection as the right hand is always on the throttle?

Ah.

And when does that typically occur please do you think John? She was telling me one is supposed to use the spikes at the route of the blade and rotate the saw into the work and I believe that is supposed to resist kickback (I've never used a cs so I'm not sure what the feel is)?

The guys she's been working with have at least 3 chainsaw sizes. The smallest is used mainly one handed and often at arm length so seems the least dangerous? The middle size looks like it could be the most dangerous (and in the size most likely to catch the unwary / untrained) as the longer one seems sufficiently long that it would move fairly slowly in a 'kickback' situation (and was more likely to cut down the next tree by mistake than hit you!)?

;-)

It's funny, as a parent you would think I would be against her getting into this field (or on a motorbike), but as a motorcyclist and long term user of all sorts of power tools (with associated near misses) I believe with the right training and equipment she is as likely to be as safe doing either as walking on the pavement in a big city *these days*? :-(

All the best and thanks for the feedback.

T i m

p.s. I have a Bosch Saber saw and have found it very useful. Jenny and I cut up our old sofa with it the other day as used it to remove an old shrub before that (as has been mentioned is good for cutting through reasonably sized branches and roots). Now I want a Tyrannosaw!

[Adam Lipscombe]

OK thanks for the the input.

What are the pros and cons of alligator/tyrannosaw vs. conventional reciprocating? Speed?

One thing that occurs to me is that the thicker blade on the alligator type saw is more likely to get stuck in green wood, and be more expensive to replace. Is that right?

Thanks - Adam

John Stumbles wrote:

that will last.

[sm_jamieson]

get a lot of use.

recip saw instead as

before, and I can see that a

that will last.

I know a tree surgeon, and he has a very lightweight, almost "mini" electric chainsaw which seems to have a lot less kick and danger due to the reduced inertia whilst weilding the thing. He said it was around 30 quid (!). A bit slower than a "real" chainsaw, but seems safer. He uses it without any safety gear, which may be daft, but he seems sensible - always push it away from you, make sure if the chain kicks, it would pull away, etc. Simon.

[John Rumm]

A quick search of youtube will turn up some demos of chainsaw meets protective gear encounters. Quite enlightening (especially when compared to the chainsaw meets simulated leg wearing only jeans) demo.

Usually when you allow something to make contact with the top half of the nose of the saw:

then flicks rapidly upwards.

Yup. It is far less likely to get problems when just making straight cuts with the body of the bar in the wood, but the nose clear of anything. What can catch (pun intended) is where you pull the machine so that the end of the bar is drawn into the cut. A bit like with a circular saw you only need the wrong bit of the blade to get pinched and it pushes the whole thing in an unexpected direction.

Part of the thinking through exercise is working out where the arc of the blade is going to go if it kicks, and making sure you (or anyone else) is not in the potential path. Needless to say cutting through a branch right in front of your face while up a ladder is asking for head like a klingon.

You also have less control at arms length, so still needs respect. Usually when I have watched guys using these they have them on a longish lanyard - so if anything unexpected happens they just drop it, leaving both hands free to deal with whatever situation arises.

There is also less chance of needing to do a plunge cut[1] with a longer bar.

[1] Which needs to be done right to reduce the otherwise likely kickback.

> Falling logs, trees etc, and just plain falling

Not much point in trying to keep them away from all these dangers, since you ultimately have no control over what they will try in the future. So it is probably better to introduce her to the dangers with proper advice and tuition rather than let her work it out by herself.

Having said that, it does not stop you worrying all the same! I had seven year old daughter (bit of a thrill seeker, and has always been fascinated by ladders) say "Can I go up the ladder daddy?" yesterday. This would be the three section one I have at some 25+ foot extension leaning against the top of a chimney stack (reattaching wobbly chimney pots and installing a new aerial). I figured probably better while I am standing there explaining how to do it safely.

Only problem with them is the non standard blades...

[ARWadworth]

I remember a Tomorrows World program showing the nylon/kevlar trousers back in c.1987. They work on the same principal a friend and I found out the night before the program was broadcast.

We were trying to drill some large holes in the door of a mark II escort for some speakers. The problem was that the insulating material behind the plastic interior stopped the drill working as it wrapped around the hole cutter.

Adam

[mike]

Certainly speed. Would have though that for stuff like scaffold boards and logs the tyrannosaw would roar through it. I cut up a load of 2x2 and 2x3 once with a recipro saw and it's not a fast process. For taking out window frames, tree roots etc it can be a great problem solver but it's not a workhorse for logging.

pe saw is more likely to

Yes, more expensive, but there're two blades and I wouldn't expect they'd get stuck.

[Mark]

type saw is more likely to

Really don't be put off, the chainsaw is the correct tool for the job. You just have to mindful that it is potentially far more dangerous then most other power tools if not correctly used, but is entirely safe if used correctly. Make yourself a sawtable that will hold the wood to be cut securely don't even think of cutting branches or anything loose or held with your foot on the ground. Make sure pets kids or anyone can't come within 10ft of you when you are using the saw, but don't use the saw if you are alone at home. Make sure all wood is stacked behind the sawtable and there are no offcuts under your feet that may cause a trip hazard where you are working.

[Mark]

I can understand your concern for your daughter's safety, but with proper training equipment and attitude she will be fine.

You can never protect against the freak accident no matter what you do for a living, people have managed to kill themselves with a pencil, and im embarrassed to admit that I was very nearly one of them. ;(

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[Mark]

Christ NO ( just in case anyone should read this at a later date with a Single-handed chainsaws in their hand)

Single-handed chainsaws are the most dangerous of all (IMO a tool so dangerous it should not be made) They are considered so risky, you need a NPTC Certificate to be able to legally purchase a new one in the UK. IMHO you also need to be a cat, with a clean slate

[T i m]

Thanks. Luckily she is one of those people who take note when we say "careful, that's dangerous". She asks why and want's to know all the wrinkles. Her big sister on the other hand would often go straight out and test our warnings! :-(

All the best ..

T i m

[T i m]

Like they might .. ;-)

Oh?

Cripes?

What *just* the littuns Mark?

Ah. Ok, thanks for the heads up

[Andy Hall]

OK, I'll buy it. How? went up nose?

[John Stumbles]

Which is what happens if you use this new eco-fleece glass-fibre/rockwool replacement stuff to line a stud wall, and get a wisp of it in contact with a drywall screw when you're fixing your plasterboard.

[Howard Neil]

I agree with all of that but would like to add one piece of safety advice.

Don't move your feet without putting the chain brake on first.

The best, if you have an agricultural college that is reachable, is to have a chainsaw course. You will not only learn how to use one safely but will also learn how to maintain it and, very importantly, learn how to sharpen the cutters. The courses can be expensive but at least some of that cost will be offset by you being able to service your own saw.

[Mark]

Yes good point

A Youtube vid showing why

one showing the all important attitude to safety.... or not

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[tonyjeffs]

I'd get a chainsaw because they are so quick and efficient. You do have to be very aware of the danger, and really safety conscious. Always arrange so that you are working above the job, so that if something falls, it falls away from you. Never use the saw in a cramped area. Keep it at arms length, as far as is comfortable and manageable, so that if it kicks, there is plenty of distance between it, and most of you. Make sure there's someone within shouting distance.

Many years ago, I was lucky to escape with a minor accident, cutting a high branch, which fell badly, fractured a bone in my hand. I could easily have been badly injured, but it made me think carefully about safety ever since, with every tool I use.

I think that a chainsaw is safe, provided you respect it and are constantly award of how dangerous it could be, and you always have safety planning at the forefront of your mind. The focus of the job should not be 'how to cut the tree down'. It should be 'how to not get hurt while working''.

Wear ear protection too.

[Ed Sirett]

Today I gave a sever pruning to a 8m high eucalyptus tree. Using both a Bosch reciprocating saw and a 1700 Bosch electric chain saw.

The chain saw went through 250mm boughs like they were made of balsa. The reciprocating saw was better, nearly as quick and safer for twigs up to 25mm.

The chain saw is a fearsome beast but had an instant stop feature so that as soon as your finger left the button the chain stopped dead.

If you make up a proper sawing horse then I would have thought the chain saw would not be too hazardous.

[Andy Hall]

Is this similar to being a militant apathetic?

[Mark]

I managed to stick 4ins of one in my neck. Sitting at desk sharpening pencil to a really nice point, dropped sharpener on floor, transferred pencil to left hand with point up, left hand on side of desk I bent down quickly under desk to reach..OUCH

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[Dan Smithers]

Perhaps this sums it up. It's much safer if someone else uses it ...