This gadget made the main headline of The Times today - here's a non- paywalled-version from the Mail:
Quite surprised never to have heard of this before, especially (AFAICS) in this ng.
Thoughts? Shall I go and buy a PowerWall then?!
If everybody starts storing electricity at a cheaper night rate, the night rate won't stay cheap for long. However, it might provide a useful standby supply when we start to run out of power because we haven't been building nukes fast enough.
NO
Once you factor in the replacement cost of batteries over time this is not a viable scheme.
The $3000 pack will store 7kWh or about £1 of power which will reduce every charge discharge cycle to the end of life Typical life of a battery pack might be 2000-3000 cycles but only if taken to 50% of capacity approx so that is 50p of power. £1000-£1500 of power in a battery costing £2000. That is ignoring the capital cost of rest of the system.
There are better ways of storing/using excess solar power by heating water especially if you are already using electric water heating.
Look up Immersun and similar products. DIY versions available too. look at
going eevn further than that, if we generate our electricity from solar panels, there won't be a cheap night rate - it will be a very expensive night rate.
I agree. I can't see how it would be cheap or efficient for the general population to buy and maintain vast numbers of these tiny, shortlived units. It might be more sensible to build larger, more durable buffer stores at local substations?
Now, if only somebody can come up with a domestic-sized nuclear power generator, they might be on to something! What do they use for those long-range satellites, like Voyager?
Tesla have a track record in such batteries, with their Roadster car. I'm not sure that a 7kWh battery is really worth having, nor even the larger capacity 10kWh version. Might keep the fridge/freezer cold and the TV/computer running for a few hours during a power cut, but not a lot more. Better, would be the battery they use in their car, with a decent 53kWh capacity. If everyone had one of these, with 'smart' electronics, then they would contribute significantly to grid storage and could take advantage of times when there was excess available on the grid. A snip at $36,000, weighs a mere 450kg (about 4 times the ones mentioned above), and with an expected life of all of 7 years, how could anyone not have one?
Bring the price down significantly, extend the life a lot, and maybe, just maybe, there's a workable system there. But as TNP will tell you, that's a lot of energy stored in a small volume. Could be really messy if it gets damaged or shorts out and goes bang.
The Voyager satelllites used the heat from radioactiuve decay of plutonium and thermocouples. It wasn't weapons grade plutonium but if you tried that at home I think you'd soon make some new acquaintances early one morning :)
The storing of cheap rate leccy is only for people who don't have panels
people who have panels will use one to store their own "free" leccy.
tim
I looked at storage systems before and they really aren't economic but they are effectively a big UPS so they could be useful if you suffer frequent cuts.
Oh indeed. Both the examples they supplied broke down on the Top Gear test track. To the point where the test had to be abandoned.
A replacement battery pack costs about $30,000. Like all Li-ion, mustn't be allowed to run flat. Which means in practice the car has to have regular use and left on charge when not. Great if you wish to leave it at the airport when going off on holiday.
Of course like all batteries, a better one is just around the corner. And has been since lead acid were invented. Yet lead acid are still in use...
I've not seen any article yet which says the sums add-up
I thought the Tesla Powerwall sounded like a UPS when it was discussed on the radio, but it's just a battery and charger, no inverter provided ...
Still costs more to store it than it does to generate it.
No. Means needs electronics to stop it being permanently flattened. The optimal life for li-ion is stored at half charge
Well if you be arsed to read up about Voyager and in fact any of the probes that go beyond roughly Jupiter you'd discover what they do for power. And how long it lasts.
Well - such things have to start somewhere - you'd not have a laptop if everyone said in 1990 "ha, look at that "portable" computer - what a joke..."
I'd love a Tesla for the kick-assness - the 0-60 on the 2 motor version is insane. But alas, a bit beyond my savings...
However, as they all come:
with an 8 year infinite milage battery and power train warranty, it's clear that Elon Musk is aware of the worry that people have about the batteries and has put the risk on Tesla's side.
So you have something, now, with does cost a bomb, but gives 275-310 miles of range with the acceleration comparable to a Ferrari.
Given time (perhaps quite some time) the cost will come down.
Unlike previous efforts involving boat loads of lead acid batteries, the Tesla has 3 advantages to give it a bit of impetus:
1) Mineral fuels are very expensive compared to electricity;2) The government (not just ours) is "making a thing" about local pollution in cities so loves electric with the various perks that entails;
3) The battery technology is used so widely with pressure globally for smaller/lighter/more capacity;I think the timing is fortuitous and electric cars might go somewhere this time around.
There's only enough Plutonium-238 left in the world for a handfull of satellites - US has enough for 3 (bought from Russia, having run out of its own stock), and Russia probably has around the same amount itself. This is severely limiting the ability to plan future long term space missions.
For radioisotope thermoelectric generators which are not going into space, there are other options. Strontium-90 has been popular in the past, but these generators are too big and heavy to send into space. USSR used lots of them for powering lighthouses, but many have been lost or stolen after the collapse of the USSR (sometimes killing the thieves with radiation).
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes
Surely the car's systems manage the battery so that it doesn't go to flat?
don't follow that.
Probably not a great problem, as long as you have drive/garage to park the car, or somewhere to park with a charge point it at the other end.
Though for the likely uses cases for elec cars at the moment, people will probably just drive to and from work and then recharge over night
If electric vehicle use increases (and I think it will) then it will be come normal to have parking spaces with a charge point - as you already find in quite a few places
Yup, because it's an appropriate technology for some uses. It's not appropriate for others, Hence the variety of batteries that have been devloped over the years
we can always make more if we want to
When stopped at a service area in Germany in March, I noticed an area specifically designated for electric cars that needed recharging. Each parking spot had a chargepoint provided. Recharge the car, go get a meal, recharge yourself.
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