OT - How to make a complaint about road icing that won't be ignored?

[dom]

We have a real problem with a small hill, on a very rural Cornwall road, that regularly gets covered in sheet ice, every year. It's the only access road for several small villages and isolated properties.

We see accidents here on a near daily basis in freezing weather. It's a 100 meter stretch that is particularly dangerous.This morning, I saw yet another.

Given last night's story about a fatal coach crash near Townshend in Cornwall, which seems to have very similar causes, it's probably a good time to push for a properly organised programme of road treatment on these minor-but-essential roads that have particularly dangerous spots.

My ideas so far:

Whoever I write to, point out that it's cc'd to local paper and bbc news.

Include the sort of questions, like "at what times and days is road Bxxx treated?", so that they can't wriggle out of providing written answers.

Write to a named individual, and point out it could be their name in the press as regards to policy, should a fatality happen there.

Actually make some constructive suggestions (website to notify of danger spots, invite to start dialogue with local people etc) - again something that looks very bad if they don't respond.

Your ideas on effective letter-writing appreciated - particularly

*who* to write to.

I'm divided between targeting an elected individual (who depends on public opinion), a senior staff member (who knows what's going on and has authority to do something), writing to one individual (who then can't pass the buck), or many (and maybe getting better awareness).

[whiskeyomega]

I doubt any of it will work with Cornwall County Council. The new unitary authority is totally useless and completely wasteful of money.

We have a similar problem where I live. There was a four car pile up on the hill I live on and still no one bothers. My lane is sheet ice, but what chance have I given that some of the roads in the village which have 50 or so houses on them cant get gritted?

I put the recycling out this morning ( if they get here) and was walking on ice like glass.

Its all an accident waiting to happen. I haven't been out of the house since last Friday. I cant get out of the lane and I don't know about the village hill to the main road. Christmas is cancelled.

[neverwas]

Very possibly not a feasible solution on a road which may carry fast traffic (even on ice given the loonies) or places to stop safely, but some LAs provide bins of salt/grit beside the road at hills/junctions for road users to undertake some DIY gritting.

Apologies for deviating from your question but I couldn't resist the DIY angle.

[Nightjar]

Road gritting is a far more complex subject than it seems. There are different types of gritting machines for different weathers, a range of temperatures outside which gritting will not work, weather conditions that will remove the grit if it is put down too soon and a certain minimum traffic level that is needed to keep a gritted road clear. If the road is not used enough, then the rock salt will simply melt its way into the ice, which will reform over the top of it.

How much are you willing to pay in increased Council Tax, to pay for the extra resources that would need to be on standby for what is a fairly rare event? It would probably be a lot cheaper for the residents to pay for a private gritting company to come along the road when needed.

As this is uk.d-i-y, an aalternative would be to get the residents to club together, buy a gritting bin, fill it with the right sort of grit for the traffic levels and spread it themselves.

Colin Bignell

[The Natural Philosopher]

Why do you think it should be Someone Elses Problem?

Get a sack of salt and spread it.

[dom]

I would certainly pay extra, and save on damage to my vehicle. I had one car written off here (the exact same spot) 10 years ago, when another motorist lost control and ran into my (stationary) vehicle. This morning it was only the utmost caution, and some luck, that saved me form being the freeform skier-to-disaster, into the pre-existing accident.

It appears the first emergency vehicle to last night's coach crash elsewhere in Cornwall wasn't so lucky.

Although that's a good idea, this particular spot is well away from any residential property - but it is the most dangerous spot on a very rural road that leads to quite a few properties.

The solution I would like to push for is a policy of treating particular danger spots on even the most rural of roads.

The suggestion of pressing for grit boxes for diy treatment, although unlikely to be wholly effective, is a good suggestion for a "bloody well do it now, until a proper solution is provided".

Elsewhere but within a few miles of this spot, on slightly more traveled roads, I see a special surface treatment (usually a reddish gritty/grippy surface) has been applied, particularly on downhills approaching junctions.

Whatever that stuff is called, it might be suitable here.

[John]

Don't assume that the"powers that be" read the letters in the newspapers.

[dom]

Because I pay taxes for road upkeep,

Because a 100 meter stretch of road is a bit more than I can cope with gritting by hand, at 5am when I need to take my partner to work.

Because the danger will still exist to other motorists on the mornings I'm not out at 5am.

Because it doesn't fix the wider problem that very dangerous spots on more rural roads are not being treated.

You could say "Why didn't the coach driver of last night's fatality walk in front of his coach checking for ice and salting the road every few yards for the whole journey?"

Public roads cannot be effectively maintained by local residents (even if there is anyone living in the immediate vicinity). People have days off, they get sick, go on holiday.

It is a reasonable expectation that public roads are reasonably maintained by public authorities.

The frequency of accidents due to icing on this section of road, shows that it is not.

It's a frost hollow. Even when road icing is significantly less elsewhere, this particular location can be treacherous.

What is needed is a policy and organisation to treat such spots.

[Tim W]

"whiskeyomega" wibbled on Wednesday 23 December 2009 08:33

You're not alone.

Kent County Council and its local councils can barely be arsed to grit more than the biggest trunk roads (even that looks infrequent).

East Sussex are making slightly more effort, but it's not what I would call adequate, given the plentiful warning they had from the Met Office.

I'm luckier in that assuming I can make it past the level crossing on the hill, I'm straight onto the A21.

However, getting to any shops the other end in Tunbridge Wells seems to be a bit pot luck. The number (all) of the private car park owners (mostly retail parks but also council car parks) who haven't thought to grit them astounds me.

[Tim W]

"Nightjar wibbled on Wednesday 23 December 2009 08:41

I've been using coal ash on my drive - seems to be the best anti slip agent I've used to date, and I have 3-4 bucket loads per week going spare.

If it's really icy, hot ashes are the best - they bite straight into the ice and form an anti slip layer, rather than relying on melting the ice away like salt. Have to be a bit careful round cars though - apart from the hot bit, ash doesn't do modern paintwork many favours.

[mark]

I think you should write to the top man at Cornwall Highways, or whatever it is called. Just phone your County Council and ask.

Write an polite and articulate letter to him arguing the case. Avoid it becoming a long winded rant. Do not copy it to or even mention the press or TV. People do not always respond positively when put under threat. If your threat comes to nothing you've got nowhere to go with your complaint.

The chances are he will pass it down to the appropriate manager, who in turn will dispatch an 'inspector' to evaluate the situation and possibly meet you on site.

Can you back up your claim about daily accidents, do the police see it as a 'Black spot'?

Build a strong case, not threats to get results.

mark

[Harry Bloomfield]

[e-mail] has brought this to us :

Shell Grip?

Fine when the road is wet, but it doesn't help at all when covered with ice. The councils prioritise the main roads for gritting and work their way down to the lesser roads. The road at the end of our drive gets no attention for the first 24 to 48 hours. Until then, we struggle.

In the past local farmers would help by clearing some of the roads local to them, but that no longer seems to happen. Perhaps your local solution might be to get several of your neighbours together and campaign for some grit bins to be provided so you can do it yourself.

[ARWadsworth]

When I used to travel to Slovakia it was ash not rock salt that they put on the roads as rock salt only works down to minus 8.

Adam

[dom]

Good advice. I only had a cameraphone with me this morning, so no chance of getting a picture, but building up a photo archive of accidents would be smart.

[Jim]

We have one of those. It's been empty since February when it last snowed.

[Stuart Noble]

Filling it up probably comes out of next year's budget

[george [dicegeorge]]

Ask the council to provide it. And padlock it. Use your own spades.

[g]

[Andrew Gabriel]

You pay taxes. You don't get to choose what they're spent on. Only about 1/5th of the road taxes are spent on roads anyway. The remainder happens to roughly match the spend on subsidising uneconomic public transport, but that figure isn't accurately known.

Expect to see much less of this sort of thing over the next many years.

[John Rumm]

Snow chains are cheap in the meantime.

[Piers Finlayson]

There's a thread on BFF at the moment bemoaning the fact that the councils will no longer let farmers have grit for free for this sort of thing.