Metal primers

[T i m]

Hi All,

I think I mentioned a while back about metal primers and I've got a bit nearer the project again and wondered if anything had changed in the meantime.

By that I mean I have a can of red oxide in the workshop and was considering using it on the two (new but slightly weathered) steel gate posts I'm about to plant [1] but I think it was suggested there are 'better' solutions out there now (better than red oxide I mean).

However, this seems good vfm:

if it's been used on a narrow boat?

Similar here:

a lot cheaper than Hammerite but do you get what you pay for?

less for more:

about this (in less quantity):

etc.

I don't mind spending a few quid on summmat that really /is/ better (and I don't have to come back to for a few years).

Cheers, T i m

[1] A mate gave me an old - large can of something that smelled like Hammerite but was full of bits. I sealed one end of each post, poured half the can in each, sealed the other end and moved them about a bit before draining the surplus off, hoping it would give the insides a good coating.

[Rick Hughes]

would not buy any Screwfix home brand products ... find quality too poor.

If you have a can of Red Lead Oxide primer, and it's still usable ... I would have no hesitation to use it on steel or iron.

[T i m]

> >>I would not buy any Screwfix home brand products ... find quality too poor. Noted, thanks.

I do and I'll check (not been touched in a while but kept in the dry and off the floor etc). I can do a test paint on something and see how well it dries and how tough it is when it does.

Thanks again.

I was asking because I know these things /can/ move on and didn't want to waste my time and risk decent protection for the sake of a can of something good.

Cheers, T i m

[Cicero]

==============================================================================

Hammerite has a tendency to 'pinhole' even when carefully applied whereas red oxide produces a good solid flat finish. Red oxide takes a cover of Bitumastic paint very well, making a very damp-impervious finish.

If you want to treat the inside of your posts you could use 'Waxoyl' although it will drain down after about 20 years.

A litre of paint at £5-00p or less is very good value, so you can't go far wrong with those on offer.

Cic.

[Adrian]

T i m gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

I find it difficult to believe anything could be worse value than Hammershite.

[T i m]

Yeah. When I made the steel tri-fold doors on the garage I noticed I was starting to run out on the 3rd door hence it got a more 'brushed-out' coat. Some years later the first two doors look pretty well as they were done but the 3rd is showing a general coating of rust.

I've just tested the red oxide I had on an old galv fuel store I was given for daughters (Tree Surgeon) b/f and it went on a bit like treacle. It could well have done with some thinning but I'm sure it still looks better even with the odd run and a few 'bits'. ;-)

This particular red oxide has a gloss finish and feels like it will tolerate a light sand once hard ready for a top coat of something prettier. ;-)

Already done with this old (possibly industrial / military) bulk green stuff and it seems to be stuck / covered pretty well. However I am considering some Waxoil for the sills on a couple of the cars as I repair them (via a Shutz gun probably).

I suppose I look for good functionality at the right price and am aware how much markup and branding some of the basic stuff can get (doubling it's price and making it no 'better' of course). The trick is finding / buying the good stuff in the white label can. ;-) [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] We have been trying much of the Sainsburys white label stuff and in the main found it perfectly satisfactory. Ok, their 'sweet pickle' doesn't taste exactly the same as Branston but then we don't care as long as we like the taste whatever it is. Similar with corn flakes, tea bags or pretty well anything else we are happy with in it's de-frilled format (especially at often a quarter of the price). ;-)

p.s. Our local branch recently removed all 'Basics' cereals, apparently at the frustration of many of their customers (inc us).

[Phil L]

> And if it's been used on a narrow boat?

I worked as a structural steel painter in the chemical industry, ICI to be precise, and their specs for painting steelwork was 1 coat of red lead, 2 coats of MIO (micaceous iron oxide) and 1 coat of gloss. The gloss was merely for colour coding, all the acid pipes were green, oxygen white etc, MIO is what's normally seen on electricity pylons and steel lamp posts.

We occasionally used zinc oxide primer, because it was quick drying and sometimes it was stipulated depending upon the job in hand, a word of caution if you decide to use ZO, wear goggles, it (seriously!!!) stings for about an hour if you get a splash in your eye

[Cicero]

If you mean inside the sills there is a spray kit with various 'bendy' tubes and rose ends for internal spraying. Strategically drilled entry holes allow you to slowly withdraw the spray to allow full coverage. Blind rubber grommets seal the drilled holes.

Much the same here with Lidl - some stuff (Muesli, fresh veg) good but don't touch jam as it's so runny it can hardly stand still.

Cic.

[Spamlet]

> And if it's been used on a narrow boat?

Its been some years now, but when I was refurbishing bikes I went through a range of expensive treatments and coatings, but in the end nothing worked better than red lead and brushing enamel.

I doubt if things have progressed much.

Having said that, I have also been quite pleased with the Screwfix grey metal primer, which feels satisfyingly heavy, though I have not used it on any serious outdoor stuff yet.

S

[T i m]

Yeah, I was looking into that a while ago. I did some work on the Astra and need to do some more again soon and thought (FWIW) that doing a bit of preventative work might not be a bad idea (especially as there is now bare metal behind where I was welding).

I (hope) I found the only bit of rust on the Corsa we bought recently at the front of the n/s/r wheel arch. I got the angle grinder with a wire cup in there then some back Hammerite to protect the outside for now. It was my intention to remove the road wheels one at some point, pressure wash the arches (full of Scottish mud) and check for any other failure of the under seal before it becomes an issue.

Whilst there I found some blanking grommets so I assume they were either there from the factory or dealer etc. I have a compressor so thought a Shutz version of Waxoil (and as you say I think it comes with the long 'wand') would be worth a go, or are you saying there is a cheaper 'bulk' way of doing that?

Hehe.

I bought a little folding sack barrow from there the other day. I couldn't buy the parts for £14.99.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

(did they always make Hammerite do you know?)

to be

Is that the same a 'Red Oxide' (Red Lead Oxide)?

Ok.

So didn't provide any extra protection?

Ah, thanks.

So would you say it's 'better' than red oxide?

This is the current version of what I dug out of my workshop ..

a word of

Noted. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Cicero]

It's usually recommended that Waxoyl is thinned for spraying with white spirit/turps substitute as it can be very stiff and viscous even in Summer temperatures. The original genuine Waxoyl sprayer (as far as I can remember) was a hand pumped item that you screwed on to the top of a gallon oil container. The thinning means that you can get a fine spray through a rose nozzle. There are now after market versions of the same thing at Halfords.

If you're not doing fully welded bottom seams on your sills you can tape the bottom seam temporarily with any kind of tape to make sure the diluted Waxoyl doesn't run straight out. This has the advantage that the seam is filled with the Waxoyl and the white spirit gradually evaporates through the drill holes.

[js.b1]

What are you planting the posts in? Use SBR with >2" surround of concrete should work pretty well.

The problem with any coating is anything scratching the surface will eventually pinhole and underground water can migrate in. The only coating that would really work is an epoxy coating, a cheapish one for cars is POR-15, the best would be 2pk zinc rich epoxy primer or cheaper epoxy mastic. Critical rebar sections are epoxy coated for proper corrosion protection under saline conditions.

[T i m]

Funny that isn't it. Dad painted the inside of a fibreglass dinghy and used 'special' primer for the purpose, cleaning the hull meticulously and monitoring the temperature and humidity as per the instructions. A month later if fell off in large patches. ;-(

I painted out the inside of my 14' fibreglass dinghy with some slightly diluted polyurethane paint, followed by a neat coat and two weeks sailing in the Lake District and it stuck like s to a b!

Similar a mate used to paint his stock cars with Re-Paint. One day he ran out so used Dulux gloss and never went back. ;-)

Seems to be the case in many fields.

And that's the big one isn't it.

Cheers, T i m

[T i m]

Not really thought about it yet. The wood or concrete posts I've done previously were just a plain concrete mix and a bit of rubble in the big gaps. Depending on how it all goes, I might be removing the old wooden 5" sq stump from the concrete hole and the 4" sq steel post could sit back in the middle of that? Maybe I could use something 'lighter' (self leveling vinyl?) and pour it around the steel post (less chance of damaging the paint but would it work)?

Ok cheers.

Ah.

So the post is actually encapsulated in a plastic jacket (below ground anyway).

So (if I don't use any epoxy etc) a good few layers of paint should also help, plus a bit of care re not scratching the paint etc?

Cheers, T i m

[Mark]

No it isn't that just makes it too fluid it doesn't stick to anything and just dries to a puddle at the bottom of the sill. Use a proper air powered applicator sprayer and if it's that cold that the waxoil is as thick as beeswax put the tin in a bucket of worm water for a bit before poring into gun. 

is utterly useless

[Phil L]

stuff, it's far too important :-)

Don't remember 'oxide' we always called it red lead, and it weighed a ton, so it may have contained lead. It had a consistency of cheese spread and obviously we used to dilute it with about 30% turps / 70% paint- it was the only way to get it out of the tin.

Very little as MIO is a finish on it's own, I've a feeling it was more to do with H&S than anything else, handrails painted yellow (and nothing else could be painted yellow), structural steel like stairways, gantrys etc were blue, and as I said all pipes and vessels were colour coded. I suppose it may have offered slight protection, but not very much in those settings, very close to Mersey estuary, in a huge plant processing mainly salt mined from Cheshire

I didn't stay long enough to find out, I only worked there for 2 years and nothing we did in that time needed doing again while we was there

treated every 20 years, and even then 90% of it was unblemished, so if you can give your steel a few coats of that, followed by 2 gloss, it should last easily 10 - 15 years before it needs doing again, barring collisions or other acidental damage etc

By slightly weathered, do you mean they have surface rust? - if so, give them a good rub down on a dry, warm day and apply first coat immediately, we often worked alongside shotblasters who would start off blasting and we would be 10 feet behind them all the time as rust can form *very* quickly - the following day the blasters would strip 6ft of paint so as to be sure it was all blasted and painted at the same time,

[T i m]

So that's the Shutz gun:

compressor and some:

T i m

[Cicero]

==============================================================================

This is a different Waxoyl product from the one I was referring to, which is a clear, greenish-tinged viscous liquid. You might try browsing/ googling a bit to make sure you're getting the right product for your intended use.

Cic.

[Mark]

The black waxoyl is more of an underseal used on exposed chassis bits likely to suffer stone damage. This is the original waxoyl for sills and inside doors etc

this is more like mine, but mine is all metal and the container is pressurised so it sprays really thick waxoyl out of a long hose you can do all of a sill in one go, and very little runs out of the drain holes in sills and door panels, as yet i can't find anyone online stocking exactly the same product.