#loadshedding

[tony sayer]

The shape of things to come to the UK?....

[Ash Burton]

Probably it is.

But it's nothing new really, remember the 3 day week in the 70's?

There a more sophisticated methods of load shedding these days but if we persist in closing coal fired power stations and not replacing the time expired nuclear plants, it could become a reality for us.

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[Dave Plowman (News)]

But can't be blamed on the unions this time? ;-)

Seems to be better to spend vast sums on headline grabbing new projects like HS2. Rather than invest in making sure a system which has worked well in the past continues to work well.

[The Natural Philosopher]

well yes, if you mean the generally socialist attitude towards energy and the attempts to bring it totally under government control.

Naturally enough, businesses are walking away from investment where viability, let alone profitability, is at the whim of a government whose policies are based on ideology and knee jerk political advantage.

[tabbypurr]

With the cheap availability of electronics it seems only sensible to roll o ut something like economy 7 country-wide. Then consumers will be motivated to spend an extra little on appliances that wait when appropriate for cheap er electricity. Fridges, freezers, washing machines and immersion heaters o ften can, and perhaps small appliances like battery chargers can play the s ame game.

NT

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Far far better to leave it all to market forces and natural competition, as now. Which is why our energy prices are so reasonable.

Which planet are you currently on, Turnip?

Of course. They are waiting around for the biggest handout they can winkle out of whatever government. As usual. Why would they risk any of their money when they will be given it anyway?

[The Natural Philosopher]

It isn't left to market forces, and thats why its so expensive

What planet are you on Dave?

Unreal. They wont risk money because =- as Drax discovered - one moment they invest 4billion into woodburners and the next the government says 'but that wont qualify for the subsidy we promised you'

Eon EDf and the like look on and say 'sod that for a game of soldiers, lets build power stations somewhere else where the government stay out of the market

Its all about controlling a non free market for political and social purposes. As usual it results in a total fuckup.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Well quite. They want a subsidy. Hardly market forces.

Wot no subsidy?

And the free market works oh so well in S Africa...

[tabbypurr]

Like everything in Africa, its squeezed financially until the pips squeak. So not a very good comparison.

NT

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well of course it is NOT a free market - it is a nationalised energy supply company. Ruin by that bastion of socialism... the ANC...

"Eskom is a South African electricity public utility, established in

1923 as the Electricity Supply Commission (ESCOM) by the government of South Africa in terms of the Electricity Act (1922). It was founded by a parliamentary act, namely the Electricity Act of 1922, which allowed the Electricity Control Board to appoint Hendrik Johannes van der Bijl as the Chairman of the Board.[5] The company was also known by its Afrikaans name Elektrisiteitsvoorsieningskommissie (EVKOM). The two acronyms were combined in 1986 and the company is now known as Eskom. Eskom represents South Africa in the Southern African Power Pool.

The utility is the largest producer of electricity in Africa,[citation needed] is among the top seven utilities in the world in terms of generation capacity and among the top nine in terms of sales.

Eskom operates a number of notable power stations, including Kendal Power Station, and Koeberg nuclear power station in the Cape Province, the only nuclear power plant in Africa. The company is divided into Generation, Transmission and Distribution divisions and together Eskom generates approximately 95% of electricity used in South Africa.

*Due to the South African governments attempted privatisation of Eskom in the late 1990s, Eskom's requests for budget to build new stations were denied. President Thabo Mbeki said in December 2007 that this was an error, and it is now adversely affecting the South African economy.

On December 11, 2014 it was announced that President Jacob Zuma had assigned Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa to oversee the turnaround of three state owned companies namely Eskom, the South African Airways, and the South African Post Office?, all of which were in dire straits.[25]

On January 15, 2015 Eskom's then CEO Tshediso Matona admitted that Eskom's policy to "Keep the Lights on" meant that power station maintenance was neglected for years, and that South Africans will have to get used to electricity blackouts for the next four to five years*"

So once again we have the lefty brain making stuff up out of thin air to satisfy his prejudices, when in fact it actually totally contradicts his position.

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, it isn't a fee market, its a nationalised industry

[Jaffna Dog]

PM Edward Heath made the decision to restrict electricity supplies to three days a week, and then blamed the unions. The public didn't swallow it, tha t's why the Tories lost the election in 1974, and they still blamed the min ers and took it out on them in the 1980's pit closures.

[The Natural Philosopher]

As an example of how to rewrite history to fit bigotry and prejudice this has to be one of the finest examples every produced.

[Jaffna Dog]

The unions did not make the decision to restrict supply to a three-day week , Ted Heath did for political reasons, and it backfired. Continuous supply could have been maintained until coal stocks at power stations were exhaust ed, and then sections of the grid around oil and nuclear plants could have been islanded, and the North Scotland Hydro-Electric run independently from the rest of the Grid.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Wonderful! I love the plot line where a man holds a gun to your head and tells you to rob a bank or else, and then claims it was all your own doing, for selfish reasons of self preservation!

Have you considered a career in professional lying? Law or Marketing would be perfect, or politics.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Fighting for better pay or conditions of service is holding a 'gun to your head'. Or, of course the more usual 'holding the country to ransom'. But then hyperbole does tend to be a tool of the extreme right wing.

Did you actually live through that period?

Of course it's far better now. Loads of the poorest on zero hours contracts at minimum wage. Just what big business ordered.

[Tim Watts]

It's another case of what happens when power is highly imbalanced. In this case, it rested (unusually) with the state workforce across many industries.

I don't blame them for taking what they could at the time - but in the long term it gave enough impetus to the government to produce a lot of union restricting legislature. About the only industry with any worker power left is the trains now.

Which is a bloody disgrace.

There is a vast difference between Casual Labour and Zero Hours contracts - principally where the latter seeks to "own" the employee exclusively, but merely pay them for the hours it feels like.

I would love to see that tested in court, if an employee held 2 or more zero hour contracts simultaneously and was subsequently fired because of it.

Part of the problem now is not that the unions are powerless, but that most people are too apathetic to join one. What usually happens is the good people bugger off to a better employer and the weaker (but not necessarily useless) ones get left holding the shitty end of the stick.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In which case they'd have been by far the highest paid workers in the land. At the time of the 3 day week there was the usual pay freeze or whatever in the public sector - while prices continued to escalate. Difference today is that with the same sort of freeze on public sector pay, there isn't the same price inflation.

Well quite. The majority (or rather those who could be bothered to vote) were conned into thinking unions were the problem. Not bothered about the underlying reasons for dreadful industrial relations. And of course those industries with dreadful industrial relations went under at the same sort of time as Thatcher's union legislation came in.

And of course the large number of young immigrants desperate for work of any sort is just what big business wants.

[bert]

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" writes

They were offered and refused a 16.5% pay increase. Holding the country to ransom is a fair description of attempting to strangle the economy by closing down the power stations. The subsequent Labour government then offered them 35% in 74 and a further 35% in 75.

Yes and I managed much of the companies limited power availability to optimise usage.

You've been swallowing the BBCs exaggerated figures of the numbers. For many situations zero hours contracts are the only practical way of giving flexibility to those who want to work part time. The recent court ruling on holiday pay has protected one of their major employment rights.

[tabbypurr]

Just what the national economy wants too

NT