Last night's "Property Ladder": A Question

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How come that kitchen only cost 6000 ? The standard price for fitting a kitchen in London is around 2000 and it looked like they had used the kitchen supplier's fitters for the job.
In any event, given all those wall units, and island unit, and fitted appliances, and wooden work surfaces, wouldn't the cost of them alone have been more than 6000 even from one of the cheapest suppliers like B&Q ?
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Ted Woodley wrote:

Remember that all the plumbing/ electric's / tiling went under a different category, I've just gone through the process so had a keen eye on the kitchen as well, I think the stated price was 6.8, which seems about right. The appliances were zanussi (same as ours) which for hood, hob, oven, dishwasher, fridge, freezer ~ 1.8K, worktop ~ 1k, fitting ~2k, which leaves 2k for units which seems about right (similar kitchen and ours were 1.8k).
okay I've just spotted a flaw in the above sink n taps ~ 300quid (and plinths etc), 6.8k may be a bit tight but as they had done this before albeit in pubs, maybe they benefited from some heavy discounting.
Jon
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Maybe. I've just been through it too. You are right that discounts cloud the picture - if I'd been them I'd have made sure the kitchen vendor knew it would be featured heavily on a C4 TV programme - that would probably reduce the price nicely.
I got a good price by:
1) Getting the kitchen company to do a free design and give me their "best price" for the materials and fitting as a package. This featured 30% discounts (so-called) and the assurance "it is impossible to get a lower price"
2) I then took the design to my own builder and offered him the same installation fee. He took the design to a different branch of the same kitchen company and he obtained another 10-15% "trade" discount over and above what I had been quoted for the materials.
Result: A good price and a fitter who would also handle laying a new floor and all the peripheral stuff that kitchen company fitters won't (officially) do. .
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On 14 Jan 2004 06:32:00 -0800, ted snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Ted Woodley) wrote:

Why don't more people, especially those in this ng, build their own kitchen from scratch? It isn't rocket science, and all the ready-made kitchens are basically chipboard and lots of it. I reckon fitted kitchens are one of the biggest rip-offs in the home refurbishing business.
MM
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Mike Mitchell wrote:

Tme mate. It take AGES to carpeneter it all up.

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Excatly. And add in the time needed to go back and forward to the kitchen supplier during the day to chase-up, exchange and collect wrong/missing parts (5 times in my case, which my own fitter handled)
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wrote:

I reckon a local carpenter with a decent workshop could dimension and fit 20 panels of chipboard in about a week. I reckon it would take me about four weeks (i.e. without a decent workshop).
Not that I used chipboard though! (I used proper wood.)
MM
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Mike Mitchell wrote:

Ys, and fisnih them all off with laminate, and fir little legs and drawer slides etc etc.
These mass prduced units are, if you get decent ones at decent cost, little more expensibve than you can buy teh parts for.
Snd a week of chippie of any caliber is near enough 750 quid these days.

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wrote:

While folks are spending upwards of 4 grand on chipboard that's packaged up in nice, expensive cardboard boxes!
MM
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Mike Mitchell wrote:

No. I paid about 2 grand for a VERY big kichen inclusding soliad oak tops.
And THEN paudf thee carpenters 750 quid for a couple of days to help me fit the tricky bits :-)

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On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 10:26:03 +0000, Mike Mitchell

Solid wood carcases ?
WOW !
Or perhaps you used a different man made board, like ply. Total overkill if you did.
Chipboard is a perfect material for the manufacture of kitchen carcases, Flat, stable, ready dimensioned, easily machined etc.
It is much maligned due to its inappropriate use and by those who like to demonstrate their ignorance.
Incidentally carpenters don't make kitchen cabinets. They don't have the equipment or the experience. Their function is generally totally different and all the more valuable when put to the correct use.
Paul Mc Cann
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On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:22:34 +0000, Paul Mc Cann

Beech, mainly.
MM
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snip
More ignorance.
Kitchen carcase making is a highly competitive business and the units are produced in very large quantities such that the average small workshop couldn't begin to compete on price.
Similarily with the doors. Again produced by a myriad of specialist manufacturers at very keen rates for the run of the mill stuff.
The real expertise, IMHO, in fitted kitchens is shown by the kitchen fitters, tilers etc. A good kitchen fitter can make a crap kitchen look decent while a cowboy can make even a Mile kitchen look terrible to the trained eye.
I've hung a few wall cabinets in my time and there are skills to it just like every other trade.
Ditto with counter tops.
I'm not saying it is beyond the average DIYers competence just that it is not something to be taken on lightly if one wants the proper job done.
Paul Mc Cann
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Ted Woodley wrote:

I ask the same question every time I see property ladder and it was even worse on Million Pound Property Experiment.
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"Just for TV" discounts I suspect, I too watched this episode and was staggered at what they could do for the money, were they getting any of the materials for free I asked myself, I'm sure they were, and who wanted to pay 535000 for a house with 1 bathroom???
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.comnojunk (take away nojunk) wrote in message

In another group it came out that the MPPE girls got a whole load of stuff for nothing. eg in the final house they got all the home network/lighting controllers/AV system/plasma screens etc. for nothing. Some of the companies who donated the equipment and labour were a bit upset because they were told that their philanthropy (it was for charridee, after all) would be mentioned and thanked on the show. It wasn't.
This came out from some custom installer trade rag, so it's quite possible that "Bathroom and Kitchen Installer Times" or "The Amtico Herald" have similar stories.
I know a couple of people who have had relatives on the relocation shows - there are a whole load of details that conveniently don't make it onto the screen.
Take anything you see on any of these shows with a pinch of salt. It's entertainment, after all, not a training video.
Neil
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Neil Jones wrote:

There are very strict rules about that sort of thing - you can't simply 'buy' a recommendation on TV. I noticed that the Ch4 website has all the supplier details for Grand Designs for example. http://tinyurl.com/3yrer for last night's repeat. MPPE's website is similar http://www.bbc.co.uk/homes/millionpound/factsheets.shtml
It's acceptable to credit on the web but if everyone who supplied anything to these property shows got a mention they would turn into a big infomercial - you get into big trouble over product placement.
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I think you've misinterepreted what I way saying. They donated equipment and time, but no thanks were given, nor mention made. I don't mean "Thanks to John from XYZ for the plasma screen" etc. - just a general mention. The implication was that the girls had to fork out for all of that lot, when they did not.

This is by no means comprehensive, though. The source I saw said:-
Multi Room Audio System Systemline S4.4 multi room audio system donated by QED Denon TU-260L tuner (all Denon products donated by Hayden Labs/denon) Denon DCM 280 5 disc CD player KEF ceiling speakers in Bedrooms 1 & 2, Bathroom 2, Living room, Dining Room and Garden System installed by Smartcomm
Cinema System Relysis RP4205 42&#8221; plasma screen Denon AVR2803 AV receiver Denon DVD 1400 DVD player Mission FS1 surround sound speaker system Philips Pronto and docking station donated by SMC Cinema installed by Sound Ideas Philips Pronto programmed by Graham&#8217;s Hi-Fi
Lighting Control for Living Room and Dining Room Areas 1 Leax 12 channel dimming system Donated by Leax Controls, installed by site electricians
Intruder Alarm Scantronic 8136 based system giving whole house protection Donated by Cooper Security Installed by Midnight Security
Access System BPT Nmova system Donated by BPT Security Systems Entry system installed by Midnight Security
Data Network Hub donated by D&T Electronics Installed by D&T Electronics and Smartcomm
Telephone Network Installed by D&T Electronics and Smartcomm
TV Distribution Loft box TV distribution system and aerials donated by SCC International Installed by SCC International
Structured Cabling All cable donated by Raydex Installed by site electricians
Low Voltage sockets and plates Donated by MK (MK Edge range)
All installation, design and project management labour was donated free of charge

That't not my point at all. If they say "We spent 20k on this house and added 50k to the value" when in fact what they mean is "We spent 20k on this house, and were given 40k of discounts and freebies, but only added 50k to the value" it put a somewhat different light on the project.
Neil
PS apologies for screwing up the threading
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Neil Jones wrote:

difficult!
snip
snip
I think the suppliers were naive thinking that they'd be properly credited. the only people who get significant publicity out of any of these property shows are the architects (who always seem to be some kind of friend of the people developing). I've never seen much credit given to anyone else and i'm sure most come out of it feeling they've been screwed.

Ah, but now we're onto the show being fundamentally dishonest! No dispute there. Even the final round up with Nigel over Xmas glossed over the timescale, overlaps and significant costs that didnt seem to be counted everywhere.
Look at the advice on the website: "Don't Nest - Invest! These days, millions of people own their own homes, but why are they nesting when they could be investing? An upsurge in the real estate market has born witness to the fact that there is some serious money to be made. Consider this examples; a colleague of ours who bought a two bedroom garden flat in Fulham some two years back for 190K and sold it recently for well in excess of 300K. Quite. And the work required to see this upturn? Hold on to your seats guys, because here comes the answer; NOTHING! The property market did all the hard work. Wow!"
That's not property development ladies. Fulham is hardly an up and coming area - it's been expensive for years and hasnt increased relative to the places around it. All that does is say houses are more expensive than they were.
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Anthony James wrote:

^^^^^^^^^^ Future tense? Someone should remind them about the "past performance is not necessarily a guide to the future" caveat. Though it has to be said that most "experts" seem to say "sell" long before the top of the market and "buy" when the recovery is well under way
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