Flueless Gas fires - Esse Firewall

[jojarosa]

I am interested in the above fire for my living room. See

anyone have experince of one of these or flueless natural gas heaters in general? This one is rated at 2.4kW but seeing as it's 100% efficient, what would that equate to for a flued heater.

One other thing I'm unsure about is ventialtion, the leaflet says you need an opening window and 1m2 of ventilation. Does that mean you need a one metre squared hole & the window open when the fire's on!! Tried to email Esse but no reply yet.

Thanks, Rob

[BigWallop]

The Health and Safety site has this to say on the subject: (it's a .PDF file, so you'll need a reader)

[BigWallop]

There's also this guide for installers on the Burley site:

? Installation This is intended as a guide only. A CORGI registered fitter must be used to fit the fire in accordance with the installation instructions otherwise all guarantees are invalidated. As with all gas fires, flueless gas fires must be serviced each year and may not be installed in a bedroom, basement or high-rise block of flats. The Fire must not be installed in a room of less than

40m3, the Environ and Esteem models in not less than 30m3. If any of these fires are being inset into an existing fireplace or cavity, the cavity/flue must be blocked off completely and cavity wall box CAV4241 fitted, to prevent suction on the back of the appliance. An air vent of not less than 100cm2 free air must be installed in the room, a chimney or floor vent is not suitable ventilation. One appropriate model of vent is the Stadium 418; if necessary these may be obtained from Burley when your retailer places your order. Flueless fires are not designed to be the sole source of heat in a room, they are supplementary to central heating. Insufficient ventilation or background heat can sometimes cause condensation to form on colder surfaces. All products in this brochure must be installed on a noncombustible hearth extending at least 100mm from the front and sides of the fire, with a noncombustible back panel. All materials within 200mm of the appliance must be noncombustible. All materials including the fireplace, mantel and shelf (including any varnishes, paints etc) must be rated to withstand a constant working temperature of 1500C. Burley manufactures a wide range of fire surrounds most of which are suitable for use with the Environ range of fires. These are perfect to make an instant fireplace. ? Natural gas or Propane Use with natural gas or propane must be specified when ordering. Due to the properties of propane a different log set and flame picture is used.

[BigWallop]

And the building codes say this:

[jojarosa]

Thanks for those, but I'm still not any clearer at what constitutes a

100cm2 vent. Couldn't find anything on the Stadium 418 vent mentioned in the Burley site. Can anyone point me to some examples.

By the way, my room is somewhere around 48m3 so no problem with size, so to speak.

[BigWallop]

A brick size out the wall is about the same size as 100mm squared aperture, so this is what you'd need to keep the ventilation going for this type of fire. And the vent has to be continuous, so no flaps or covers are allowed over it. High level is best as well.

[jojarosa]

Hi again, just to be perfectly clear on this, you are saying a brick sized vent is the same as a 100mm squared aperture, but e.g. the Burley site quotes:

"An air vent of not less than 100cm2 free air must be installed in the room, a chimney or floor vent is not suitable ventilation."

i.e. centimeters not millimeters. This sounds like a much bigger hole to me. Or am I missing something.

[BigWallop]

Sorry, my apologies. I'm getting my MM's mixed with my CM's. :-)

If you measure a brick it will be around the 10 cm in height mark, and double that in length, so a brick sized hole will be more than sufficient for a continuous vent to the room with the fire in it.

[Ian Stirling]

100cm2 is not 100cm*100cm, but 10cm*10cm. cm2 is short for cm^2, or square centimeters.

[John Stumbles]

Or a brick-sized airbrick where the holes make up half the surface area will be just right.

[jojarosa]

Thanks for clearing that up, I was reading it as 100 x 100.

[bigcat]

They produce damp and condensation, expose the occupants to gas combustion fumes, lower air oxygen levels significantly, and have an increased acidental death rate compared to vented heaters. Personally I would not want to fit one, unless for some reason it was the only possible way it could be done.

NT

[Ed Sirett]

I think the 1m2 would be a misprint. Something like 100cm2 would be the norm. In general this type of heater requires a largish room (certianly more than 30m3) A flued 'radiant' gas fire of about 3.2kW would offer the equivalent heat output (i.e a 'normal' gas fire on 'half') However the reduced ventilation requirement could well make the flued fire more efficient when the usage pattern is added in to the balance.

They produce condensation and they are inherently less safe than conventional gas fires.