Gas fires

SWMBO wants an inset Gas fire for the lounge. We know about flue types, fuel types etc but there is still a bewildering choice of fires. Are they any makes to prefer or avoid? Is having a slide control (or remote control) worth it? Anything else that we should take into account.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yep, the constant 1kW[1] you will lose up the flue when the fire isn't on ;-)
[1] Actually I think that is the estimate for a moderately sized conventional chimney so a gas fire flue opening may be less but certainly not trivial.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 17/03/2013 11:14, fred wrote:

My mother has two gas fires - one open flue, the other room-sealed balanced flue. The losses from the open flue are very noticeable. I suspect that she overall loses more from the flue than she gains from the fire - i.e. by losing warm room air when fire is off as well as what is drawn in when burning.
My choice would a room-sealed device.
In the south, I had excellent parts service and helpful attitude from:
http://www.gasworks.co.uk/
As usual, no connection except...
--
Rod

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, good call, I had forgotten about those.
Hopefully the chosen location will be on an outside wall.
--
fred
it's a ba-na-na . . . .
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

No. It's an internal wall with an extant fireplace. I believe the high efficiency models should not lose too much heat up the chimney, since they claim in excess of 80% effeciency. They do have heat exchangers to extract heat from the flu gasses.
I would expect a room-sealed fire to be exceedingly expensive too and quite complicated. I can't find any price lists ATM.
Anyway, anything would be better than now, where we just have an empty hole in the wall. It used to house a backboiler but the boiler has been relocated elsewhere.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 17/03/2013 12:47, Mark wrote:

Might be 80% efficient in terms of "when burning gas, 80% of the heat gets pushed into the room". That, I feel sure, does not allow for "when switched off, considerable amounts of warmed air are drawn up the chimney which requires the background central heating to be running (much?) more of the time".
Prices? I do not know - the one I know was fitted an awfully long time ago.
--
Rod

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I would hope that the efficiency rating would include any such losses. Looking at the design of some HE models the path for air to be drawn from the room and up the chimney is quite long and restricted.
Anyhow I can't imagine it being any worse then now since the room air can escape up the chimney with no restriction at all.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 17/03/2013 16:37, Mark wrote:

How can the efficiency rating possibly allow for that?
Imagine, a room with such a heater, and it is used for one hour in the year.
And a second room where the heater is used 24/7/365.
In the first room, even if the loss were tiny, it would very likely make the efficiency negative (compared to a blocked off flue).
In the second room, it might get near the claimed peak efficiency.
The reality will be somewhere between the two. And they cannot know how much use you will make of the heater so cannot make allowance in their claims.
--
Rod

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

It doesn't matter how much use the fire has. The efficiency can be measured simply: Hear output into room/total energy used. Any losses up the chimney would be part of this equation.
When not in use efficiency has no meaning since no gas is being consumed.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 17/03/2013 18:57, Mark wrote:

Overall efficiency of having an open versus a room-sealed heater!
--
Rod

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

AFAIK I can't fit a room-sealed[1] device there so the point is moot.
[1] Some 'room-sealed' (fluless) devices seem to need an air vent anyway.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 12:47:07 +0000, Mark wrote:

We fitted a room sealed Paragon Focus HE into an existing 16" alcove with a conventional chimney, several winters ago, replacing an old open flue gas fire and haven't regretted it. It wasn't the cheapest option, but has proved it was worth the extra expense. We got it from a local gas appliance supplier and the manufacturer's site is www.paragonfires.co.uk.
We chose the slide control option since the type at the bottom means you have to remove the "grate" to use it. The mechanism needs to be kept clean or the battery spark control fails to switch the spark on.
--
John W

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 23:54:43 -0000, John Weston

Thanks for this. Does this fire provide a decent level of heat?
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mar 18, 9:45 am, Mark wrote:

4.4kW output http://www.paragonfires.co.uk/pages/products/focus-high-efficiency-gas-fire s/focus-he.php
Owain
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 03:08:44 -0700 (PDT), Owain

I have called paragon fire about this model. They were very helpful but were not able to tell me what the losses might be when the fire is off, except that they will be less than having no fire at all.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 18 Mar 2013 09:45:25 +0000, Mark wrote:

Yes, it's on now almost as low as it goes, keeping this 6x4m room warm when the CH is off during the day. When on full, from cold, it heats the room quickly, much better than the previous open coal-effect gas fire it replaced. In use, it seems the advertised reduction in room air changes is factual... I'm thinking of replacing the open gas fire in another room with a similar model.
--
John W

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 11:14:25 +0000

Do they not have a damper to close the flue when not in use? All the open fires, gas or wood-burning, I used in the US had a closable damper, which it was very advisable to remember to open when the fire was used again! Some were operated by a hanging chain, some by a rotating rod, some by a lever.
--
Davey.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 17/03/2013 11:36, Davey wrote:

I suspect that would be illegal for a gas fire in the UK. Anyone now for sure?
"Oh sorry you/they all died of carbon monoxide poisoning, forgot to re-open the flue damper."
--
Rod

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I would have thought it would be easy to devise a safety feature to prevent that happening - like the gas can't be switched on unless the damper is open.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On 17/03/2013 12:52, Mark wrote:

They do not appear to have allowed that in relation to ventilation for an open boiler. Would not seem impossible to have some interlink mechanism to allow the wall vent to be closed when boiler is off, but it is not allowed. I suspect things like "fail safe" are not easy or inexpensive to achieve.
--
Rod

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.