Building Regulatiosn Part P

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On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 17:47:51 +0000, River Tramp wrote:

Thou doth jest, surely?
Timbo
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Because you will be able to work from home all the time in your superinsulated house and not need to drive to work.
.andy
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On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 22:57:57 +0000, Tim S wrote:

F**k me...
http://www.eden.gov.uk/council/technical/planning_s/pdf/broadband.pdf
apparantly, thou doth not jest.
We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed - We're doomed -
Time to leave the country...
Timbo
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Tim S wrote:

Error 404. the correct URL is http://www.eden.gov.uk/pdf/broadband.pdf

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Hmm. Some bureaucrat somewhere is living 20 years in the past. The ADSL Forum always intended that all broadband access around the house was to be by wireless links. Early ADSL modems used Ethernet or other links only because wireless wasn't ready then.
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And none of these people, particularly bureaucrats should mandate specific technologies, anyway. By the time the standard/legislation/whatever is published, it'll all be out of date.
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It is - but the number of house sales falling through for lack of them is steadily increasing.
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wrote:

Well I didn't until someone mentioned it a while back, and I think I would be reasonably expected to have an idea.
PoP
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In what way do building regs affect replacing a window? I'm having my existing double glazing units removed and replaced with new double glazing units (so as to match the double glazing units in an extension were having built). Do I need building regs approval for this, or is it replacing original single glazing with double glazing that falls foul of the building regs?
IMHO Extending building regs to DIY activities, such as installing a bit of new wiring, broadband access and the like is about par for the course for socialist governments like we have at the moment. If you want less government interference in your life, vote Conservative. If you want more govenrment interference in your life, vote Labour/Lib Dem.
Dean.
wrote:

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You do need approval because the new double glazing units have to conform the the latest insulation requirements (well the windows as a whole do I think).
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Chris Green

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wrote:

Michael Heseltine c.1979 may have made wonderful speeches about jobs locked up in planners filing cabinets and making a bonfire of controls but all they did was increase planning controls. Listen to the media now and you'll hear Conservative spokesmen saying that it is outrageous that HMG are prepared to allow the thousands of new houses to be built in the South East. You won't hear them saying that it is outrageous that HMG was ever given the power to determine this and once they come to power market forces will be the sole determinant of what houses are built and where.
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Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
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If you're having them put in, your installer can probably self-certify them. If you're putting them in, you need building control approval.
Al
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Personally, I'm inclined not to give a monkey's - I will just follow the IEEE regulations and do what I've always done. This IMO is Blairite regulation gone mad and they can stuff it.
Now that's a personal opinion and I'm not recommending anyone else do so without careful thought.
AFAICS the only time it's likely to be an issue is when selling. If selling, I suppose it's possible to get an inspection done then? Anyone know different? Assuming so, if buyers markey, I'll pay, if seller's market, buyer can blinkin pay if they want the certs that badly.
I really can't see how they are going to enforce this at all.
Up the revolution!
Timbo
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That'll do fine for designing Ethernet gear; for domestic wiring you may prefer the IEE regs ;-)

Yes, buying and selling time is the main time any inspections will get done in practice. And as you suggest, there's a makework scheme by which the buyer's solicitor/conveyancer sends a standard set of queries including sthg like "Can the vendor confirm that all electrical work has been carried out under the relevant Building Regulations" and the seller's solicitor replies (or at least mine will) "the vendor is not aware of any material departures fron the relevant Building Regulations, but the buyer must satisfy themselves at their own expense as to the state of the electrical installation". Then both solicitors can put another few minutes' chargeable work on their bills (even though this is all standard boilerplate) and they're both happy.

By appealing to the venality of the less repatable members of the trade, I'm afraid. "Ooh, what's that missus? Your lights keep going out? No problem, we'll have someone round in the morning". Cue sunrise. Plausible rogue arrives, sucks teeth meaningfully, "I think I've found the fault" (pushes button back on MCB) "but you're really going to need a full inspection. If it turns out you need a full rewire, we'll refund the cost of the inspection. Trust us, we're honest tradesmen, and here's a sistificate that says so." (Not to malign all sparkies: there are plenty who are anything but ripoff merchants; but the 'self-certification' route increases the temptation to talk up the intrinsic difficulty & danger of the simplest electrical job...)
Stefek
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On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 19:38:55 +0000, stefek.zaba wrote:

Oops - butterfingers (can I blame the laptop's keyboard?)

Good, very very good. I'm going to write that down :->>

Righty ho - business as usual for me then...
Timbo
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wrote:

Obviously not if they can't spell "sustificate" :-)
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Well, if it was me I'd be inclined to say that no electrical work has been done on the property since this regulation came into force, so no, there is no certificate.
This is what will happen in the vast majority of cases. If the house burns down because of dodgy wiring, the insurance will still pay because officially the wiring was in place before the certification regulation etc. Some insurers will solicit reports about the wiring condition (ie was it newer than the regulation start date), but I doubt it because the vast majority of fires WILL show the wiring was old, so they will have to pay out anyway. My guess is that only if they suspect the wiring was 'improved' but not checked, will they investigate further, just like they do with burglary claims where the claimant inflates the claim amount (ie, adding in enough extra to but a new carpet etc). Most people will get away with it, a very few won't.
In short its an undenforcable regulation, but let's not forget, the point is not to raises standards in the industry (if anything it will lower them as the grey market gets bigger), but to raise revenue for Mr Brown. It's a tax, and a very regressive one that will be passed on to those who buy 'official' electrical services, ie the elderly, single mothers and anyone else who has a fear of electricity. The rest of us who can read books with titles like "Home Electrics for Dummies" will not be affected one little bit.
Just my twopenn'orth.
Dean.

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On 11 Feb 2004 01:23:29 -0800, Dean wrote:

One thing to watch for there, is that I think a change to the colour coding of the cable is also on the cards at around the same time, so might be an idea to stock up on T+E cable.
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coding
Hopefully they'll get the timing wrong and change the colours about three months before the new regs come in. That way we'll all be able to use the new-colour cable and claim we did all our electrical work back in a three-month period early in the 21st of the century!*
Al
* unless they start printing the date on cable
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Some insurers will solicit reports about the wiring

My insurance requires me to maintain my property in good condition, but nowhere does it say anything about having it **certified** to conform to building regulations. If insurance companies wanted to ensure safe electrical installations it would make more sense for them to insist upon periodic 5 year inspections as suggested by the wiring regulations.
Taking the analogy of car insurance - is my insurance invalid if my brakes fail after I have changed the brake pads?
James
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