Another Sad read (PHI Jan 2004)

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This months PHI has an article on a condensing combi called an Ethos made by Mikrofill. I haven't heard of it but the spec is amazing :-
46Wk delivering 21.5 litres/min @ 40 or 12.9 litres @ 60, yet the CH side can modulate down to 3.75. Even IMM should be impressed by that flow rate, though it does need 4.4 m3 of gas per hour. Isn't this beyond the usual domestic meters capability ?.
Also seems quite compact, only 550 high.
www.mikrofill.com
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Andrew

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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 00:27:04 +0000, Andrew

It's not that revolutionary, although the spec. is quite good..
I am not sure that Mikrofill in the UK actually make this boiler in the conventional sense. I've seen one very similar in Holland and am pretty sure that this is a private label product made by a Dutch manufacturer. There are hints of this in the install guide where the wiring diagram has Dutch legends on it, and also because the boiler has the option to use Opentherm controllers. This is meant to be an open standard for modulating room controllers etc. whereby the boiler output can be modulated by the room thermostat rather than being turned on and off. Opentherm is an association of manufacturers, mainly Dutch, German and Italian with interoperaibilty between controls and systems.
The technology is quite similar to the MAN Micromat http://www.man-heiztechnik.de/index_e.php
I've had one of their units for a year and a half and it works as billed with impressive modulation ranges and control..
The burner/heat exchanger is of a very similar design between the two (might even be the same manufacturer) and the control system appears to be from the same manufacturer as well (SIT Encon) and set up procedure are virtually identical.
.andy
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I'm sure I posted details a while back. Yes it is impressive and British too. A normal meter can cope with 6 metres^3/hr. It competes with the ECO-Hometec and is well specced with weather compensation, etc. I'm not sure of prices.
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I think you'll find it's Dutch and this is a private label in the same way as Eco Hometec and MHS badge the MAN products........ I'm pretty sure I've seen this unit in Holland in a heating place. The manual has some Dutch texts....
Mikrofill do not actually claim to "manufacture" this product as far as I could find

Not surprising. The heat exchanger and burner appear to be of the same design and manufacturer and the controller appears to be from the same vendor as well - SIT Encon.

North of 1k I would think.

.andy
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wrote:

OUCH!
I was wondering if it might be worth replacing our old CH boiler, which still works fine but Spouse says it's old (1985). But can we justify that price?
And I do like having separate CH and HW boilers, if one goes down we haven't lost everything!
Mary

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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:10:29 -0000, "Mary Fisher"

This one, like the MAN has very sophisticated control and adaptability to different operating conditions, such as monitoring outside temperature to be able to predict what is going to need to happen inside. Being able to drop to a very low output means that a small amount of heat can be produced continuously during times of the year when most boilers would be switching on and off during heating times.
I don't know about this particular model, but the MAN product is built to a very high standard and comes with a 5 year parts and labour warranty.
I don't like single points of failure either (engineering background), but I also consider what I do to deal with them in respect of the likelihood of things happening, the cost of provisioning backups and the inconvenience of using them.
So I have a large 200 litre hot water cylinder, insulated to above the required standard and it is fitted with two immersion heaters. I don't use these often, other than to test them once a quarter.
For heating, and even hot water backup, the AGA does a great job since it doesn't use external electricity supplies. If the small amount of heat released normally should need to be boosted, then it's a simple matter of leaving a lid up or an oven door open.
If you are considering boiler replacement, then I certainly think that condensing types make a lot of sense. You certainly don't need to go for the level of sophistication that I have and can find good quality condensing models from about 600-700 depending on size.
You can work out the rough energy saving by looking at the SEDBUK site and comparing with what you have now. On a seasonal basis, as efficiency is currently measured here, you are likely to be talking about 65% for the existing boiler and 90% for a condensing boiler. I did a swap like that a year and a half ago and the saving is in the 25-30% area.

.andy
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haven't
That sounds good.

That sounds good.

We haven't had a cylinder since we first had a multipoint boiler, i don't want to go back to one and we haven't room now anyway.

Don't have one of those either ... and since we bought a large dual fuel cooker last year I'm hoping it will see us out!

So does Spouse ... but now he's talking about a new pc each too and I've seen a colour laser printer for 500 ...

Ok, thanks for going to all that trouble, Andy, I'll have a peruse.
Mary
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 16:49:04 -0000, "Mary Fisher"

It adds to overall efficiency. A lot of boilers modulate these days although a lot only go down to about 10-11kW and a few go down to 7kW. There are only a few that go down to 3-4kW.
To give an example, I just looked on the display on my boiler and it's showing 4 degrees outside temperature. The boiler is running at about 4.5kW

Also north of a grand I'm afraid, but you can buy from a Yorkshire company (if Doncaster counts)....

OK, then it's really a case of planning adequate equipment for what you want to achieve.

That should hedge your bets pretty well also.

Coo....

No problem - pleased to help.

.andy
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Mary Fisher wrote:

Seen the Epsons for less than that in Costco if you're interested Mary.
Steve
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Steve wrote:

Are those Epsons laser printers?
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S Viemeister wrote:

Yes, and cheaper than getting Xerox to come and service our old one. :-(
Steve
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Thanks.
I need to mail you, must make the meal first though.
Mary

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wrote:

haven't
Then fit in two boilers. You maybe could have one condensing boiler as your main boiler and a cheap regular boiler as backup.
The other alternative is to have an integrated heat bank that supplies CH and DHW. This could have a high kW immersion heater (or two). So if the boiler is down you switch on the electric immersions and backup you have for DHW and CH.
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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 10:10:29 +0000, Mary Fisher wrote:

Not bad for this spec of kit. The equivalent like a Vaillant Turbomax+ 837e wold also be similarly priced but not quite as good on the spec.
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wrote:

I'd never heard the word "Vaillant" until we got a water heater (instant, continuous) water heater for the caravan.
It's wonderful too.
Mary

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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:10:13 -0000, "Mary Fisher"

They've been around in Germany for a very long time. More recently, they have been on the acquisition trail and now own a significant number of companies in the UK heating business.
.andy
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wrote:

They advertise on TV too.
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<<snip>>
Establishing the brand name I imagine.

.andy
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On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 01:17:22 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

Classic Euro-ad one lot of images with doubtless a different voice over for each country.
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(instant,
We don't have one ...
Mary

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