I had occasion today to look at all the links I've saved on other
people's workshops. Many, many dead links.
A sad goodbye to Howard Ruttan who often posted great things.
So sad to not be able to connect with Ken Vaughn's pages. Really a
wealth of info now not available.
Take heed and make a permanent copy of the valuable things you find.
Maybe we're talking about two different things. I have never been to the
site under discussion. But if I had investment myself in constructing a
site, I would like it to have as much permanence as possible--sort of like
planting a tree. I'm not talking about anything that has to do with
theft...I'm talking about preservation. Do you think people write books
mostly for the money (not in my field of expertise they don't...lol)?
I understand the desire to preserve that which one values...
...and I maintain that taking someone else's property without their
permission and without an exchange of value for value, is theft.
Under international law, the right to make copies of authored (drawn,
sculpted, photographed, composed, recorded,...) materials is the
property of the creator from the very instant of creation.
Opinions on an author's motivation have no relevance, and calling theft
"preservation" doesn't change its nature.
In my experience, fewer than one in a thousand of those who "value" work
sufficiently to want to "preserve" it, value it enough even to say
"Thank you for showing it to me."
I wasn't talking about those high-volume sexy sites. ; )
As an example, don't you think that the content of all of the "What is it?"
threads should be formally archived? Most of the folks at the sites
that I go to are pretty respectful folks.
Theft strikes me as an especially poor way to show respect, regardless
of who's doing the stealing and who they're stealing from.
I don't normally see the "What is it?" threads - my filters are set up
to mark those posts as read (not killed, but read) because they're too
distracting for me. If you think they should be archived then you should
perhaps be corresponding with Rob - and discussing with /him/ how to
make doing so worth his time, effort, and server space (and/or offering
him /your/ time, effort, and server space) to set up and maintain that
I think most folks /are/ essentially honest and respectful of others -
and I don't have much use for those who aren't.
So, Google is not your friend? I'm certain they are archiving all that
stuff, and this stuff, and all w/o permission, at least I don't recall
giving them permission, or you permission, to copy anything I write in
Conservatives believe every day is the Fourth of July, Liberals believe
This is such a public forum, you know you are being archieved. If you want
privacey you can communicaate via email.
I agree with others, a lot of people make websites a collections of
techniques they want to teach to others. I have seen permission to copy,
rarely a "do not copy" but largly it is not addressed. But knowing what I do
of some of these people, they wouldn't mind at all. I think they would view
it as "still teaching", so long as proper credit is given. And it isn't
being done for commercial gain. Yes, I think that is a factor too.
A few years back someone tried to bound and sell a bunch of "useful threads"
from a newsgroup,
and created all kinds of controversy by doing so. I don't recall how it
but there was no shortage of opinions about the issue! : )
> A few years back someone tried to bound and sell a bunch of "useful
In the days of FidoNet, I wrote an application that would automatically
scan the FOOD echo for recipes, it would separate the recipes from the
post, format them for a popular recipe program (QBOOK) and archive the
files for free downloading from my Bulletin Board. I never worried too
much about it other than some recipes that stated, and may have been,
the original recipes for stuff like KFC or McDonalds special sauce,
stuff like that. I had over 21,000 recipes.
Common sense tells you if you post something for public usage, it can be
used, particularly if not used for profit. Common sense also tells you
the judicial system has about as much common sense as a can of worms...
Google and YouTube are a wonder though, and hard to figure how a pack of
wild eyed lawyers haven't robbed them of all their money yet...
Got Change: big government =====> BIG GOVERNMENT!
Archiving is already taken care of. Google may be screwing it up these
days but they do make a pretty good attempt to keep the archive of every
USENET post that gets to their servers, except those with the
x-no-archive header or those that have been removed either at the
request of the author or because they were in some manner or other unlawful.
Of course if Google goes under that archive goes away.
The trouble with the "what is it" threads is that they don't make much
sense without the "what is it" images to go with them, and those images
belong to the site owner or whoever shoots them for him.
Well, the "What Is It?" threads serve as a nice example of something
that I wouldn't wish for society to lose. I see them in the same
category as a museum-piece--actually, they document the museum pieces! :)
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