13A socket in toilet (not bathroom)

[Adrian Brentnall]

HI Folks

In our rented shop, there are still some thrifty folks who insist on making their own tea / coffee (rather than buying the far nicer brew from the cafe round the corner)

To let them do this, we have a standard mains kettle in one of the rooms of the shop.

I'm concerned about this on safety grounds (toddlers knocking over a kettle of hot water etc) - so would like to move the kettle into a non-public space - in this case, the toilet.

To do this, I'll need to run in an extension lead, as there are no sockets in the toilet.

One of the shopfolk said 'Ahh - you can't do that!' - but I think they're thinking 'bathroom' rather than 'toilet'.

Anybody confirm or deny please - we're in Ireland, by the way, but I've read that regulations are similar if not identical..

Thanks in advance Adrian

[polygonum]

I couldn't give a monkey's about the 13A socket - but I certainly would NOT wish to have a kettle for drinking purposes in the toilet!

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 26 March 2013 14:00 Adrian Brentnall wrote in uk.d-i-y:

Quite rightly I think. It is a risk you've clearly assessed, visually, and you have concluded it is a major risk (well a risk with a very bad outcome, which is major in my books).

Ew. No. Poor hygene.

Can you either protect the kettle space, or instruct staff to bring in a thermos - which will not be opened in the prescence of the public (it too may fall over and scald a kid)?

[Owain]

It's an area on business premises where food is prepared, so would have to comply with food hygiene regulations. You should have a supply of potable water separate from the toilet, and means for washing mugs etc separate from the hand-wash basin.

A lockable cupboard with a kettle-on-the-wall inside might be suitable. However even having a mug of hot drink on the salesfloor is a safety risk.

Owain

[charles]

how about a fixed hot water boiler?

[charles]

but that risk is minimised by using a mug with a lid and a 'sipping hole'

[John Rumm]

Well there are no explicit restrictions on sockets in cloakrooms... although as others have said, its less ideal for other reasons.

How about a fixed wall mounted kettle - the type where you pop a cup on the stand and operate a tap, rather than lift and pour etc?

[Adrian Brentnall]

Some background...

'Toilet' - in this case is a store-room with a wc, and a washbasin with cold mains & no hot water. This is the only source of water on the premises - and is used for hand-washing and filling the kettle.

Practically - this isn't going to change...

So - 13A socket in the room - OK or no ?? Worthwhile adding a 'plugtop'-type rccb to feed the socket, do you think ?

Mains feed is via an old 'fused' distribution board, rather than a modern CU.. - again - that's not going to change soon.

Rented premises...

Thanks Adrian

[whisky-dave]

I thought they were dangerous too, as someone could use them to rinse their hands without realising it was boiling water rather than 60C or so.

[charles]

the one in our village hall has a notice warning of "boiling water" and isn't over the sink anyway.

[Mr Pounder]

The bog man asked the above.

Brewing up in the bog indeed! How's about looking after your staff? Very British.

[Toby]

I suggest you have a read of this

Especially this part

*What toilet and washing facilities do I need to provide?* facilities with hot and cold running water.

and this one

*What arrangements should I make for meal breaks?* There should be washing facilities nearby, and a means of heating food or water for hot drinks. You must maintain good hygiene standards.

[polygonum]

Don't think that applies in Ireland. They might have equivalent measures.

[Sam Plusnet]

I doubt if the good folk of West Cork think of themselves as particularly British Mr Pounder.

[Mr Pounder]

His question was very British.

[jgharston]

Are you the tenant or the landlord? Why are the general public allowed into the staff room (the room with the tea-making facilties)? Put a notice on the staff room door "Private - Staff Only" (or equiv), instruct the staff to use common sense when using tea-making facilities, and instruct them that non-staff should not be allowed in the staff room. Any sprog that fights its way past the staff into the staff room to pull a kettle on itself gets all it deserves.

JGH

[Adrian Brentnall]

We're the tenants. There is no staff room. We have two rooms with electricity, they are both retail (public) areas and currently the kettle is on the floor in one of these rooms. The only other room we have available is a store room with wc and washbasin.

Adrian

[snot]

Hum....... You've got a bigger problem than you think. A spot check from a Safety Elf or a Hygiene Check could (in the UK - IRE

*may* be different) see you closed down. If (heaven forbid!) a Member Of The Public injures themselves on the kettle or a hot drink - the resultant "fuss" could be unpleasantly expensive. Other than suggest(!) that breaks be taken off the premises I'm afraid that I see no other solution.

[Adrian Brentnall]

I think there'd be a riot if I tried to ban hot drinks in the shop - but I'm certainly thinking that the kettle should go.

Things out here are probably more relaxed than in the UK in terms of the Safety Elf - but our insurers reckoned that they'd honour their responsibilities should a member of the public be injured, but _then_ they'd be coming after us 'personally' with a lawsuit - so I'm not prepared to get into that (it's my name on the insurance policy!)

There's only one person shop-sitting at a time - so 'closing' for coffee breaks isn't ideal - but I think we'll have to insist on flasks or 'take-out' drinks, rather than the kettle...

Thanks Adrian

[Tim Watts]

On Tuesday 26 March 2013 21:39 Adrian Brentnall wrote in uk.d-i-y:

How much would it cost to run an account with the coffee house for a standing order of x cups a day - for a discount of course?

Let the other staff have a "freebie" and it might well cost less than fixing the problem and it could pay back in good will.